Who are the best leaders

[Rusty Edge]

I liked this thread a lot better when it was a positive discussion of character qualities and accomplishments of the Real Life leaders who appear in this game.

 

[Ahimsadharma]

It's pretty easy to get a "Sparticus" situation on your hands when the slaves start outnumbering soldiers --and know about it. Slaves kept seperate in individual dwellings/farms/etc. wouldn't experience the same "mob mentality" effect and would also make it much more difficult to organize any sort of slave rebellion.

Spot on. Especially when you consider the fact that in most ancient societies(particularly true for Egypt, mesopotamia & China), slaves were basically captured war soldiers & citizenry of the city you just pillaged.

When you have a huge bunch of slaves gathering around/kept together for year and years, especially when a lot of those slaves are former soldiers, the chances of a 'Spartacus' is fairly high- its just a matter of 'taking your opportunity'.

Civilization is a lot about economics - it is true today and it was true 10,000 years ago. And while our ancestors 100 generations ago ( or for some even today) may have held some pretty ******ed beleifs about their purpose in life/reason for universe, they wern't exactly stupid when it came to money matters.
A Paraoh may have all the God complex in the world but if he/she sees that 'sweatshop labour' is way cheaper than 'captured slaves + army sitting around', they wouldn't blink an eye to take the cheaper option.
Even the dumbest of rulers don't knowingly take the quickest route to bankruptcy.

 

[meatwad4289]

ok. I tried to keep it cool. But this guy is just not letting things go. Sound's like someone is into conspiracy theories, Well frankly, I AM NOT. My step father tells conspiracy theories, and it's the SAME BULL ****. Atleast his are entertaining and contain some truth, just widely stretched out. I'm seriously sick of seeing "Ahimsadharma" every other post Bit**ing about everything, and spreading hate and lies. You try to act civilize so those who criticize you look dumb, Well guess what, you pissed off alot of people. I've showed some of my friends, who are or have parents(and therefore frequently visit) other countries, some from Korea, some from Japan, some from England, some from Albania, some from Iraq, some from Saudi Arabia and various others, I showed them your posts, They laughed and said several things about you, that are inappropriate to say here, but to give you a clue, it had something to do with low intelligence. So since you contineu to act like a child, I will treat you as if you were a child, because in my honest belief your probably 12 years old, thinking your a big boy, but oh no, You aren't those accidents you have at night aren't a sign of man hood.

Umm thousands upon thousands die in big huge projects. Do you think if today India undertook a massive building project, people will not die ?

Are you Dumb? Are you? really dumb? I said that these Egyptian Slaves died building the pyramids, That is a fact. I'm not disputing some people even today will die from manual labor, because that is true. So what the hell are you talking about really? Come one little buddy.

Deaths are a function of the engineering challenges presented, not a question of slave labour.
Slave labour is nothing more than Judeo-Christian propaganda as is most of their stuff about Egyptians.
Likewise with the great wall- that is nothing more than an eurocentric spin to the event. Yes, Chinese govt back then(and still today) are brutal and repressive but slave labour never built anything on mass scale before the era of guns.

So. Slaves in Ancient Greece and Rome are all part of a Judeo-Christian Propaganda? Slaves in China and the Middle east never existed? Wow thats stunning news, They should have that on the news sometimes...... Wow. Kid, it is a widely known fact that SLAVERY EXISTED. And that SLAVE LABOR WAS USED ACROSS THE PLANET. Also a known fact that the Ancient Egyptians had slaves, as well as ancient chinese empires. You obviously have a lack of understanding and knowledge. If I were to guess, BASED soley on your criticisms you must be in the American public school system.
*please note, I am not attacking the American Education System, simply stating that he think the school system is failed and full of idiots, so based off his belief of the american school systems, he must go be part of that school system.

Simply because, 20,000 slaves would require a sizeable armed forces comitted to it to guard against any uprising. That is too much internal garissoning and not enough defending the borders.[/QUOTE
LMAO DUMB ASSERIE AT ITS FINEST. LAWL LAWL LAWL LAWL LAWL LAWL LAWL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL. Wow, thats right up there with "Pull my finger" hahahhahahaha I laugh at you 134%.. The extra 34% was built up frustration that failed to leave every time i read one of your stupefying posts. 20,000 Slaves DOES NOT REQUIRE A SIZABLE ARMY! If fear is inflicted in them, AND IT WAS, then 1/4 the size of the amount of slaves would be more than adequate. Because They would have weapons. Most slaves would be scared to do anything, and the few that werent scared would be taken out very easily. And if there was ever a rebellion, the rest of the army, is probably a stones throw away.

For a Civ4 player to think that wonders are slave-made, is nothing short of ridiculousness, really. Next time, try to see what happens if you are building a wonder in your capital and half your military is sitting in your capital, far away from your borders. You just get owned by the next guy and that was no different in the ancient world.
A great many died making the wall as well as the pyramid but as an engineer, i can say that overwhelming majority of those deaths are safety-issue related, not slave related.

Lmao of. You really are dumb arent you. lmao. FIRST AND FORMOST, What do you use slaves for. WORK. They enslaved the people sent them down to work on the wall, and because of safety-issues, and accidents these slaves died, however its widely known that those who did not do as told were killed. So... Stop your preaching, No one's buyin it. It's over kid, jsut cause you want history to be changed so you dont fail your next history test on christopher columbus, doesn't mean itll change ok billy.

When you are building a wall thats 3000 Km long or a building 100s of feet high, people fall off, people get crushed by stone, slip in the terrain, etc etc.
That is the cause of death for most cases, not being slaves.
Slavery was not an organized phenomenon in the ancient world before the invention of guns. This is not to say that slavery didn't exist- Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Mesopotamians, Iranians all had slaves ( India is one notable exception for never keeping slaves in its ancient history) but they were all personal attendant/attendants of the estate kind of slaves. Nobody in their right mind mobilized hundreds or thousands of slaves at the same time without a very good reason, nevermind keep them all together for 20+ years to build something.

ONCE AGAIN SLAVES WERE SENT IN TO DO DANGEROUS WORK. You know, when you grow up, and you right this kind of stuff for the weekly world news(even though it got canceled you can still do it in pretend world cause thats where your ideas are from) As i said I doubt the slave crews were together for 20+ years, HOWEVER, atlowest it was 20,000 Slaves for the Great Pyramid, and with the rate of movement it would take 23 years. READ A GOD DAMN BOOK.

Ancient civs might've been misguided (and that is no different with religions today) but they wern't exactly dumb people. A Pharaoh wouldn't do that logically. Not to mention, as i said, some tablets from Memphis seem to prove this, as it is accountancy tablets of how much was paid to whom and how many were paid etc etc. for a certain pyramid ( not sure which one).

Wow, A pharaoh wouldn't do that? I didn't know that, maybe you should tell the Pharaoh's THAT DID. Wait, their dead. To late you lose. They won, cause it worked. Are you sure it wasn't them paying the owner of slaves for use of the slaves? YES YES YES thats the only possiblity, sure there may of been independent contractors, but isnt it cheaper to use slaves, YES. No matter how you look at it unless slaves are contractors then it is cheaper to use slaves. READ A BOOK.

There are outcries about what people find out. Thats all. There are outcries even in China today when govt.keeps family members in the dark about flood victims in a mine. US has had that happen till the 1970s to colored people for example and still today you can disappear without a trace in some parts US if you are colored (i know, i've driven through those hick towns before).
US also experimented on its own people and that is something most nations have not stooped to.

LMAO. YOU SON ARE A RACIST PRICK. Hick towns? lmao. There maybe some people in the US that are still racist, hell my personal belief is everyone is racist in someway, but to say people disappear. GIVE ME A BREAK. Did your daddy the ghost fro mspace with one eye tell you that? Bet you can eat a gernade too. READ A BOOK.

I just don't get this whole US hoopla- it is a rich nation, powerful nation, i will grant you that, but extremely malevolent in nature as a fundamental stance.
And damn right hypocritical too.
I wonder just how many US Generals or Majors stood public trial, like the Nazi war criminals did for their concentration camps- so far i see no difference between that and Abu Ghraib.

WOW.. First off we don't willingly want to harm people, unless they F' with us. So take your Dumbasserie and leave little boy. you know what, you're totally lost in this fantasy world. Seriously Alice, get out of wonderland. Theres this place it's called REALITY, go to it.. and... READ A BOOK.

I don't care that US isnt very humane in nature- as you rightly pointed out, most nations arn't and humanity still has far to go. But what gets me annoyed about the US is their media's incessant potayal of them somehow being freer than the rest of the world or being the best place to live. Now, i know for a fact it isn't really- there are dozen nations i'd readily live in before the US- but the US shameless propaganda is a few zillion times worse than most nations i know of.
Thats what annoys me the most about America. Very much the central antagonist character from the 'mirror mirror, who is the prettiest of them all?' story.

WOW.......... WOW.... WOW.... you cut the heart and sole of america deeply, I think everyone in America is weeping now.. Wait what? No, no we're not. Well maybe some but thats just because of the day. Listen, child, the reason why America's media portrays America as being freer, because our Entire Government is based off a document that ensures our freedom, while other governments simply readjusted and accepted freedoms. Don't get me wrong, there are other nations out there with the same rights, possibly more. But America is the beacon, it is the flagship. A world without America would be much different, and not as free. so... READ A BOOK. You should get one for your english class kid. They really help.

No, that is another piece of US propaganda. Japan did not surrender because of the nukes- Japan surrendered because Soviet Union declared war on them, soviet union annexed and took over Manchuria and the Soviet had at that time built a fearsome reputation by almost single-handedly defeating the Nazis (yes, it was the soviet union who gets 90% of the credit for beating Hitler).
This is also noted in declassified Japanese military transmissions at the eve of WWII's end.

REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY... No. READ A BOOK. The Japanese surrendered after Russia declared war on them, OFCOURSE, the bombs were dropped before Japan Surrendered. The Nukes devastated them, and it is A FACT that they did surrender because of the nuke. If they didn't surrender because of the nuke, then that just goes to show you the nuke was a failed weapon, but considering they kept with it, means that it was a successful weapon. And dont give me that BS about soviets getting Credit, Everyone knew the Russians army had been severely damaged, they lost over a million men, American Generals were ready to march to Moscow, because there was going to be little resistance. but the Government said no. READ A BOOK.

More like Trueman overruling all sound advice to exact his revenge for Pearl harbour. Afterall, he is on record for making outright racist statements of his own ( US was very much a near-Hitler style racist nation back then) and he was extremely anxious to reclaim the 'white pride' from the utter mauling it recieved at the hands of 'slant eyed heathen' in Pearl Harbour.
He is on public record to've said as much in his national speeches. That Japanese history is very pro-American in post-WWII days is simply because America owned Japan militarily for much later than WWII and was utterly powerless to do anything about it ( Japan was not an economic power house till the late 70s).

Lmao wow, You really don't know S*** abotu history. What a loser you must be. I bet kids dance around u and poke u with dog poop at school. wow. I mean seriously. You honestly believe the only reason was for revenge. I'll give you that it was a reason, but COME ON CHILD. IF America and Russia invaded Hundreds of thousands of more lives would of been lost, So what happened. We dropped the bomb, showed our power and said "WE GOT MORE" and Japan said "WE'RE SORRY" and that was that. so.. READ A BOOK.

This is only because most others have very little concept of how truely evil nuclear bombs are, what their impact on the planet, on the human species and other life-forms are on long term scales.
Had your grandfather and the ones who agree with him known a bit about just exactly what happens with nuclear fallout and how it impacts human species, i am sure they'd have preffered to take a 'higher immediate casualty' than unleashing the most barbaric act ever commited by man(using a nuclear weapon over a city).

Obviously those who are ifnected with the radiation will die or develope diseases. But once again, lesser of two evils. I think your still in your fantasy world alice.. Time to come out.

People who try to say that the nukes ended the war are not only incorrect( USSR's declaration of war & invasion of Manchuria was of bigger consequence to the Japanese war effort- that is what made surrender inevitable to the Japenese in their 'bushido code', not the fear of death), it is also highly ignorant in trying to say immediate death-toll would've been greater and that is reason enough to f*ck around entire humanity with its effect.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME KID. You're not very intellegent are you. Awh loook at the little baby making big boy talk, awh, don't worry you'll out grow those diapers one day buddy, and maybe withthe diaper gone your head can pull out of your ass. btw... READ A BOOK.

You do not understand. You really do not. perhaps you should read certain chinese texts, to do with building the great wall, on why China opted for PAID labour over slave labour. it is not modern chinese propaganda- it is over 1500 years old chinese govt. text to do with repairing a stetch of the great wall that was demolished by the Mongols/Turks.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME.. you already commented on that GOD DAMN YOU. Now I msut repeat. I hate repeating. If I could read chinese, I would read chinese text but I still cant get the hang of the left to right thing. If you read a book with the truth, instead of the books you currently pick up at your elementary school's "Hate america" section... you'd know the truth, but sadly you don't... So READ A BOOK.

If you read the text, it'd become clear to you why Slave labour wasn't used in building pyramids/the great wall or for essentially any large scale construction (ie, requiring thousands of men for decades) :

So if I read "the text" so one text? one singular text? with no title or author mentioned, and it spans two entirely different cultures? Wow thats a cool text. Slave labor was used... STOP REPEATING YOUR OWN LIE, and repeat the truth "THEY USED SLAVE LABOR" go ahead repeat. REPEAT IT. then READ A BOOK.

To secure 20,000 slaves, you'd need a garrison of 5000-6000 soldiers staying put and doing NOTHING for 20 years. You have to pay for their upkeep, keep them supplied with equipment, give them good food ( you don't want your soldier's morale to drop, especially if you were being stingy while a great expensive project is underway) and care for their animals- all for 20+ years ( or however long it takes for your massive project to build).

Wow, one you don't understand how any of that works. wow. your like a child who sits o nthe seesaw alone, thinking your doing it right.. but really, your not, and the kids are around you laughing, but guess what, you don't notice cause your missing a part of your brain, called intelligence.

Plus you got to feed the slaves anyways, since you don't exactly want slaves to keep dying on you in huge numbers, as slaves were expensive to replace.
Slavery in ancient times wasn't exactly a turkey-shoot like European slavery of Africans were (where europeans showed up with guns and assaulted people in spears and clubs!)- each time the 'despot' needed new slaves, they'd actually have to pick a fight with a weaker power and enslave them. Picking a fight = men dying = new men requiring training to replace the fallen soldier = expensive !

Wow.... I feel patheticness, in you. Once again you lack knowledge boy.

The Chinese text for example, talks specifically of not letting the soldier-to-slave ratio fall below 5:1, since that would mean that the slaves stood a chance to beat the armed guards if an ambush was planned.
And the text recognized the fact that 'its okay, armed enforcements are on the way, damn slaves would be quelled tomorrow morning' is highly stupid.
Simply because, even if the slaves managed to get out of control for a short period of time, they could do incalculable damage to the 'great monument' being built and these super-projects like the Pyramids, Great wall, etc. were extremely expensive financially- so much so that idea of 'slaves destroyed half
the thing overnight' would mean permanent abandonment of the project.

Once again this Chinese text this single chinese text, with no author or title, that also represents Egypt. But based on your text.... There would be 50,000 slaves and 10,000 troops... Which is a larger gap than the one that was estimated in EGYPT. IT was slave labor stop kidding yourself... Seriously... READ A BOOK.

As some ancient Chinese and Egyptian records show, it was simply a cheaper option to hire a lot of poor people to do the labour-work than keep an army of 5000 armed and ready nearby to guard the slaves. The ancient world still had a lot of poor people and even in highly advanced/rich societies, they had ready access to poor people if not in their own nation, then just outside their borders. It was simply, a far cheaper option to toss in a few coins and 3 meals inorder to get hire poor people for labour jobs than keep 5000 armed men sitting around and guarding the slaves.

Are these records from the same single text, with no author nor title? I don't think you understand... It's called.. READ A BOOK... and then you learn the secret... Your wrong. Oh wait not a secret, everyone knows your wrong. Hell I don't even have to be right anymore, because if you're wrong then I must be right. STAY IN SCHOOL.. READ A BOOK.

I am sorry, but if there is one thing that history has taught me is that most people's concept of history is highly flawed and rather illogical.
Our ancestors( for those which were civilizations and not just barbarians) thousands of years ago might've been less advanced technologically than us, but they were still pretty good at economics and figuring out the cheaper way of doing things.

You must seriously fall in the "Most people category" because your view of history is highly flawed, illogical, and just plan wrong. How can the entire planet agree what happened, and yet your still debating it, even though its fact. I mean come on, your not gonna get an A if you don't write the correct answer. I really REALLY like how you further your pathetic attempt at being intelligent and still refer to Barbarians and Civilizations as separate. Please... Feel free to take this time to whine, cry, and READ A BOOK.

Now that you've OFFICIALLY F'd thsi thread, and got me PO'd, as well as others because you just don't understand the world, You have an overly skewed view of the world, that very few people would say is correct. I'm not saying I don't have a skewed view, but not nearly as skewed as yours. You might think that it's not skewed, but when you start wearing pullups you might see it.
And to be fair, the reason I treat you like a child and idiot, is because you acted like that.
Your little rampage is over. There will be no more of it heard. You can talk and talk, and you will be ignored unless it relates to this topic. I encourage everyone else to ignore any further posts NOT relating to this topic.
-------------------------------
WE WILL NOW RETURN TO THE ORIGINALLY SCHEDULED PROGRAMING.
-----------------------------------------------------

Some one mentioned something about British navies wouldn't allow Hitler to get to them. I thought Hitler was building his Navy to rival the power of the British.. or am I confusing it with WWI.. I know in one of them the British didn't like the fact that the Germans built a massive navy, as it threatened their territory.. I could be confusing it because of "Sink The Bismark" a song released about the British fleets attacking a ship called "The Bismark" the sogn was by Johnny Horton.

other than that, "Never Fight a Land war in asia"? i never thought that applied to Russia, but I guess it could. I mean I do understand the winters are not good to attack in. But i believe that if Hitler did it correctly he could of taken Russia, He just had a few to many mistakes.

 

[Ahimsadharma]

I would read chinese text but I still cant get the hang of the left to right thing

No wonder. Chinese is up-down, not left/right.

 

[Ahimsadharma]

Anyways, it is pointless to argue with people who are not aware of history.
We have a trillion-words hyperventilation above trying to prove that slaves built the pyramids & the great wall, when fact remains that discovered Chinese & Egyptian texts of the time such building WAS under progress clearly indicates the usage of 'sweatshop labour' and not slave labour with one document going far enough to do the economic tallying and SHOW how slave labor = more expensive.
I said that the pyramids are/were built by slaves is largely Judeo-Christian propaganda due to obvious reasons.

The rest is just nothing more than ' are you kidding me ? read a book!' type counter to facts and logical extrapolations so i will let it be.

 

[hoopsnerd]

Wow... you two should really take care to articulate your points in a more educated fashion. I'd continue to debate but I'd rather not join in the "battle of the ******s." I can't fathom how you expect anyone to take you seriously, if that's your goal.

Bottom line - meatwad is partially right about slave labor being ubiquitous and worldwide, Ahimsadharma is partially right about the fact that you could never have a huge population of slaves amassed in one place or they would rebel on you in an instant -- especially if they were formerly enemy soldiers recently conquered. He's also right about the fact that paying an army to guard slaves is a lot more expensive than paying workers a ridiculously low wage -- you have to feed the slaves regardless and the wages paid would have been marginal when compared to the costs of feeding the workers, period. SOME slaves were used, no doubt, but the great wall and the pyramids were built my a "wage slave" majority and not a true "slave" one.

 

[IbnKhaldun]

I liked this thread a lot better when it was a positive discussion of character qualities and accomplishments of the Real Life leaders who appear in this game.

Seconded! .....

 

[firebrace]

I can't believe only one person in this thread has gone for Elizabeth I.

Mother Executed for adultery and treason. Branded a bastard by her father.

The Elizabethan Era is often termed the Golden Age.

She took over a country made bankrupt by HenryVIII, having lost most of its French provinces, and divided by religion. With next to no resources at the start of her reign, with a stack of debts, and besieged by French, Spanish, and the Holy Roman Empire, at the end of her reign the country was the richest in the world, literacy, art and culture boomed with Shakespeare, and Marlowe to name but two poet/playwrights.

Her naval explorers, started an overseas expansion that formed the basis of the British Empire over the next 4 centuries, which was ultimately to become the largest Empire the world has ever had.

New age of scientific thinking of the renaissance started and flourished with people such as Sir Francis Bacon.

Defeated the Spanish Armada of 133 fighting ships with a navy of 34 ships and 160 armed merchant vessles.

Effectively established the Anglian Church.

Established the poor Laws - an early form of Social Security.

 

[Ahimsadharma]

at the end of her reign the country was the richest in the world

Actually, nowhere close to being the richest country in the world ( which in Elizabethian era was China, followed by India). Elizabeth's reign coincided with Akbar the Great's reign in India- they came to power within a couple of years of each other and they both ruled for 40+ years ( IIRC, Akbar ruled for slightly longer than Liz I). Those were the days when the Portuguese were first making contact in India and by comparative analysis, when Elizabeth's reign ended, England was indeed one of the richest countries in Europe, having a treasury of over six million pounds ( a million in 1500s = more than several billions today) whereas Akbar collected tax per year in the range of 4-5 million in equivalent currency ( and Akbar was known as a very moderate taxer of the peasantry). And in Indian sources, it is mentioned that China collected 1.5x more money in taxes than Akbar did.
Up until early 1800s, China was still the richest empire in the world and one of the most technologically developed (though remarkably under-developed in warfare tech.)

But IMO, Elizabeth I loses a lot of ground because she was quite the barbarous lady when it came to beating down the populace. There were quite a few rebellions in her time and she persued a policy of religious discrimination and torture when crushing the rebellions, thus tarnishing her image significantly outside of strictly English realms.

 

[Knimoax]

Moses, Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, Mao Zedong, Muhammed, Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Jesus, Benito Mussolini, Alexander The Great, Napoleon Bonaparte and Adolf Hitler.

All were able to speak to the people, touch their hearts. Some might seem out of place but they only done whats right by them.

 

[Arlborn]

Moses, Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, Mao Zedong, Muhammed, Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Jesus, Benito Mussolini, Alexander The Great, Napoleon Bonaparte and Adolf Hitler.

All were able to speak to the people, touch their hearts. Some might seem out of place but they only done whats right by them.

Opinions are just opinions after all heh...

 

[hoopsnerd]

Moses, Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, Mao Zedong, Muhammed, Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Jesus, Benito Mussolini, Alexander The Great, Napoleon Bonaparte and Adolf Hitler.

All were able to speak to the people, touch their hearts. Some might seem out of place but they only done whats right by them.

Since when did Jesus really exist?

 

[Arlborn]

Since when did Jesus really exist?

Go ask him.

(readwhateveryoupleasefrommycomment)

 

[hoopsnerd]

Go ask him.

(readwhateveryoupleasefrommycomment)

That doesn't make sense...

 

[Arlborn]

That doesn't make sense...

Not for you!

 

[hoopsnerd]

Not for you!

Is it in of those things that I can only understand via exclusive membership to an assembly of folks who blindly believe unfounded mumbo-jumbo without any way of backing it up other than mutual delusion?

 

[Arlborn]

Is it in of those things that I can only understand via exclusive membership to an assembly of folks who blindly believe unfounded mumbo-jumbo without any way of backing it up other than mutual delusion?

No, that is the other one! I am not talking about mumbo-jumbo theories! It got be SANTA! Hellooo!

 

[meatwad4289]

Since when did Jesus really exist?

Is it in of those things that I can only understand via exclusive membership to an assembly of folks who blindly believe unfounded mumbo-jumbo without any way of backing it up other than mutual delusion?

I'm sorry what? One since when did Jesus not exist? proof? How do we know Moses existed, how do we know Mohammad Existed? How do we know Buddah Existed? How do we know there is an existance, and we're not plugged into the matrix.. Well we don't know 100% but because it's Written in books, the stories in the bible have been proven to actually happen in history, so I'm going to go ahead and say, unless you can say no, he existed, I don't care if you worship Jesus or if you worship a pig porker(GIGIDY lol) You can't go around saying Jesus didn't exist, and then call an entire religion mumbo-jumbo. That just makes you look like an . .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Religion played a key part in history, and in politics. It's one thing to attack politics and history, it's another to attack a religion, Because this is what people BELIEVE, and your saying no your wrong because guess what I'M RIGHT, there is no god there is no heaven, This religion is the only way, Convert or Die, How do you know the path you follow is the correct one? do you know 100% that your right? no. So why don't you back off. I'm not very religious, but I do believe in God, and consider my self a Christian but not a very good one, but If theres one thing I hate more than anything it's people attacking religion, I don't care what you worship or don't worship as long as you don't harm other people. Just because you don't accept a certain religion or religion in general doesn't make it right to attack people that do believe, what makes you better than them? What if their right? What if we are judged and are sent to heaven or hell, what if we are reincarnated? what if we're plugged into a matrix? what if we're sent back to start over? what if there is nothing but darkness? What's it matter to you.

I do believe the person making the comment about Moses, Jesus, MLK Jr Hitler and other historical figures is right, they were all great speakers who convinced people to follow them with words.

 

[Arlborn]

I'm sorry what? One since when did Jesus not exist? proof? How do we know Moses existed, how do we know Mohammad Existed? How do we know Buddah Existed? How do we know there is an existance, and we're not plugged into the matrix.. Well we don't know 100% but because it's Written in books, the stories in the bible have been proven to actually happen in history, so I'm going to go ahead and say, unless you can say no, he existed, I don't care if you worship Jesus or if you worship a pig porker(GIGIDY lol) You can't go around saying Jesus didn't exist, and then call an entire religion mumbo-jumbo. That just makes you look like an . .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Religion played a key part in history, and in politics. It's one thing to attack politics and history, it's another to attack a religion, Because this is what people BELIEVE, and your saying no your wrong because guess what I'M RIGHT, there is no god there is no heaven, This religion is the only way, Convert or Die, How do you know the path you follow is the correct one? do you know 100% that your right? no. So why don't you back off. I'm not very religious, but I do believe in God, and consider my self a Christian but not a very good one, but If theres one thing I hate more than anything it's people attacking religion, I don't care what you worship or don't worship as long as you don't harm other people. Just because you don't accept a certain religion or religion in general doesn't make it right to attack people that do believe, what makes you better than them? What if their right? What if we are judged and are sent to heaven or hell, what if we are reincarnated? what if we're plugged into a matrix? what if we're sent back to start over? what if there is nothing but darkness? What's it matter to you.

I do believe the person making the comment about Moses, Jesus, MLK Jr Hitler and other historical figures is right, they were all great speakers who convinced people to follow them with words.

Good post meatwad4289. I personally don't take it serious anymore. Why should I? It is only a forum after all, and in the long run it is better just to ignore this kind of comment and/or make obscure jokes!
Better for your health!

 

[Ahimsadharma]

I'm sorry what? One since when did Jesus not exist? proof? How do we know Moses existed, how do we know Mohammad Existed? How do we know Buddah Existed? How do we know there is an existance, and we're not plugged into the matrix.. Well we don't know 100% but because it's Written in books, the stories in the bible have been proven to actually happen in history, so I'm going to go ahead and say, unless you can say no, he existed, I don't care if you worship Jesus or if you worship a pig porker(GIGIDY lol) You can't go around saying Jesus didn't exist, and then call an entire religion mumbo-jumbo. That just makes you look like an . .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Religion played a key part in history, and in politics. It's one thing to attack politics and history, it's another to attack a religion, Because this is what people BELIEVE, and your saying no your wrong because guess what I'M RIGHT, there is no god there is no heaven, This religion is the only way, Convert or Die, How do you know the path you follow is the correct one? do you know 100% that your right? no. So why don't you back off. I'm not very religious, but I do believe in God, and consider my self a Christian but not a very good one, but If theres one thing I hate more than anything it's people attacking religion, I don't care what you worship or don't worship as long as you don't harm other people. Just because you don't accept a certain religion or religion in general doesn't make it right to attack people that do believe, what makes you better than them? What if their right? What if we are judged and are sent to heaven or hell, what if we are reincarnated? what if we're plugged into a matrix? what if we're sent back to start over? what if there is nothing but darkness? What's it matter to you.

I do believe the person making the comment about Moses, Jesus, MLK Jr Hitler and other historical figures is right, they were all great speakers who convinced people to follow them with words.

Well said.

Though i must say, having studied history, i am naturally wary of Abrahamic religions ( Abrahamic religions = religions that see Abraham in common view and are essentially the same, with minor differences- Judaism, Christianity & Islam).
Perhaps it is because of my upbringing ( secular hindu upbringing, though i lean towards buddhism these days and its perfectly cool with my family) but i cannot help but notice that Abrahamic faiths have killed insanely more people in the name of their God than all other religions combined.
In history of Abrahamic religion ( both written history & legends), there is one mass genocide after another, one mass killing spree after another to spread God's word/protect God's people/save world from infidels.
There's the genocide of Caanan, mass genocides in Europe by early Roman Christians, mass genocide & warfare of Crusader era, mass genocide of India(by muslims), utter annihilation of Persia & central Asia by Tamerlane & Nadir Shah, etc etc etc.
While in the non-abrahamic side, there is like zero religious warfare amongst Romans & Greeks, two or three mentions of religious warfare in ancient Egypt(though much more limited in an internal-power struggle scenario), there is a grand total of zero Jains, Zoroastrians,Bahai and Sikhs going bloodthirsty in the name of God. There is once instance of Buddhists opressing on religious basis ( small kindgom, ancient southern india), one instance of Daoists & Confucians killing in name of religion and three instances of Hindus(one mythological, two historical) killing people/waging war in name of God. Most of these religions are hundreds, if not thousands of years older than Abrahamic religions, yet none of them come even remotely close to Abrahamic religions for pure butchery.
I dunno just what exactly it is about Abrahamic religions that make them so much more bloodthirsty than other religions/philosophies but i agree with the point of not viewing a christian/muslim/jew as more malevolent just because of history(people afterall are individuals).
But i cannot help but be wary of the Abrahamic schools of religion simply because of their markedly gorier history than any other extant religion. The only religion of mankind (ever practiced) that i know of to be bloodier is the Aztec religion, where hundreds/thousands of people were summarily sacrified ever so often- but even the Aztec religion pales into insignificance in comparison to Abrahamism, because it was afterall the religion of only one kingdom and that too, not a very big or populous one.