Who else agrees that Civ 5 has been dumbed down?

[Guardian_PL]

Just so everyone else has some perspective, charon2112 hasn't actually played Civ4.

As you haven't played Civ4, your opinion as to whether Civ5 is better or worse is really not worth reading.

@charon2112: you haven't played Civ 4, and yet you are saying 5 is better? How would you know or not know that? I guess you just make this stuff up? Something always seemed kind of fishy..

Is this true? So I got infractions for bashing the guy who was flaming people comparing Civ4 and Civ5 while he didn't even play Civ4?
Brilliant, just brilliant...

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[gingerbill]

getting rid off sliders is not dumbing down , sliders were a crutch for bad planning.

removing a broken religon system is not dumbing down . I'd rather not have it than it dominate the whole game

replacing civics with policies is not dumbing down. Policies are far better.

removing stacks of doom is not dumbing down.

removing the silly slavery tactic is not dumbing down.

 

[Guardian_PL]

getting rid off sliders is not dumbing down , sliders were a crutch for bad planning. - getting rid off sliders is dumbing down, sliders were tools for good planning

removing a broken religon system is not dumbing down . I'd rather not have it than it dominate the whole game - removing religion system is dumbing down. I'd rather have it and face the risk of AI ganging up on me in religious wars than dominate the whole game

replacing civics with policies is not dumbing down. Policies are far better. - ookay, so many arguments - replacing civics with policies is dumbing down. Civics are far better

removing stacks of doom is not dumbing down. - yes, because "Blankets Of Doom" are so much better, not to mention using your workers and overall pathfinding

removing the silly slavery tactic is not dumbing down. - adding silly City-States is dumbing down

I've tried to keep to your style

 

[Toady]

getting rid off sliders is not dumbing down , sliders were a crutch for bad planning. Whereas... totally unconnected research and production and finance is not bad planning? ... or is the the fact that income is the end all be all of the game now not bad planning? You're right why should we need sliders when we can buy happiness through buildings, skip production by buying units, skip culture by buying tiles. This is what i call solid planning indeed. ONE "SLIDER" TO RULE THEM ALL!! MAKE MORE MONEY!

removing a broken religon system is not dumbing down . I'd rather not have it than it dominate the whole game. I am not even going to grace this with a responce

replacing civics with policies is not dumbing down. Policies are far better. Far better because of? their fire & forget nature? their level up kind of feel? senseless correlation with each other? their looser dependence on techs? what exactly makes them better?

removing stacks of doom is not dumbing down. It wouldn't have been if they hadn't replaced it with an imbalanced in terms of map size & production time scheme which the AI can't handle for the life of it.

removing the silly slavery tactic is not dumbing down. Slavery tactic is definately silly.... especially when compared to say.... being able to purchase everything including culture right of the bat! They left chopping up forests for production in though!! OMG! quick to the Firaxis-Phone!

Nice points you made there! Civ V rocks!

 

[generalwar]

I have voted no. Civ 5 is much harder and it looks simpler on the first look, but victory now depends on some small and big things that you have or haven't done in the game. It's possible that all of your friends will turn against you if you don't find them a better target, AI tries to eliminate possible winners, 1 UPT that rulez and specialization of cities and many other things. I think that we need some more time to understand the game's mechanics and to make a real War academy and stop wasting time on threads like this. I guess that here is more people that voted yes only because other people are bored of this negative threads or are playing civ 5. Nothing more to say.

 

[Toady]

I have voted no. Civ 5 is much harder and it looks simpler on the first look, but victory now depends on some small and big things that you have or haven't done in the game. It's possible that all of your friends will turn against you if you don't find them a better target, AI tries to eliminate possible winners, 1 UPT that rulez and specialization of cities and many other things. I think that we need some more time to understand the game's mechanics and to make a real War academy and stop wasting time on threads like this. I guess that here is more people that voted yes only because other people are bored of this negative threads or are playing civ 5. Nothing more to say.

If you need a War Academy forum to handle the complex intricacies of Civ V's warfare system and the threat of the AI trying to eliminate you.... then son there is no salvation for you.

 

[generalwar]

If you need a War Academy forum to handle the complex intricacies of Civ V's warfare system and the threat of the AI trying to eliminate you.... then son there is no salvation for you.

I don't need war academy for warfare, warfare is easy, I would like to her some advices on city specialization, having tons of gold even some diplomatic advices. You know that in War academy aren't only disscusions about war, right?

 

[Guardian_PL]

I don't need war academy for warfare, warfare is easy, I would like to her some advices on city specialization, having tons of gold even some diplomatic advices. You know that in War academy aren't only disscusions about war, right?

For that read Sulla's latest walkthrough with Wu Zetian, he brings interesting (disappointing or sometimes downright depressing, but valuable nonetheless) points about city development and diplomacy, and he in fact gets tons of gold.

I'm sorry, in two years time, with expansions and patches Civ5 might get complex and hard to play. As it is now, all your worries can be solved by warwarwarwarwarwarwar...

 

[Toady]

You gave the answer yourself mate, get tons of gold... you 'll be able to plug any culture - happiness - production deficiency that way.

Expand at a snails pace so you can blast through golden ages and spam policies fast.

Randomly click buttons on any diplomatic screen with the AI.

Do what the quest givers ... sorry City States... ask you to do. That or you can buy them too, that's a nice spin off eh? being able to use that so hard to come by cash somewhere finally!

Build 2-3 units max and laugh as the AI crashes n' burns into you. That or build 2-3 additional units and win the game by conquest.

Here is a Multiplayer tip free of charge: Don't go into a MP game as Bismark... unless you want to be the laughing stock for coming up against players with the most ridiculous Leader ability ever.

 

[eoran]

So what does it mean if that number hits 50%?

Answer: absolutely nothing. Only 1400 people have voted. What is that, less than 1% of the total people that purchased CivV?

You have an agenda and you won't rest until some meaningless poll "proves" that you are right so you can have a bigger soapbox to stand on. So utterly silly.

Man... Do you know how many interviews are needed to make a sociological study of 50 million people? Maybe 500...

Perhaps the spectrum of this poll is not the best, but with the amount of people who have voted, the margin of error may not be greater than 15%.

 

[Grimberht]

I don't need war academy for warfare, warfare is easy, I would like to her some advices on city specialization, having tons of gold even some diplomatic advices. You know that in War academy aren't only disscusions about war, right?

If you want some advice... i suggest that you like up to Sulla review (the link is somewhere in the CIV 5 tavern).. It has a 2 ou 3 pages worth of analysing of the game by one of the most respected Civlisation communauty contributor where he gives a few strategic advices that technicly give you all up the ENTIRE complexity behind the wonderful and highly RESTRICTIVE Civ 5. We even should rename it that way RestriCIV 1, a whole new franchise for dump players.

 

[generalwar]

Thanks for the link. I saw his previous review which wasn't much, but this looks better.

 

[Thormodr]

Man... Do you know how many interviews are needed to make a sociological study of 50 million people? Maybe 500...

Perhaps the spectrum of this poll is not the best, but with the amount of people who have voted, the margin of error may not be greater than 15%.

Exactly. At least in Canada, when they do polls on certain issues, they use a sample size of about 1,000 to 1,500. They use this to represent the opinions and views of a nation of 34,000,000 people.

For example:

The majority of Torontonians believe police actions against G20 protesters were justified, according to a new poll.

The Angus Reid poll, which surveyed 1,003 Canadians and 503 Torontonians, found that 73 per cent of Torontonians and two-thirds of Canadians believe police treatment of protesters was justified during the G20 summit.

It also found that 80 per cent of Canadians and 90 per cent of Torontonians think the federal government should compensate businesses damaged or forced to close during the summit. Other findings:

• Two-thirds of Canadians are disgusted with the G20 demonstrations in Toronto. Fifty-nine per cent are ashamed, 57 per cent are angry and 54 per cent are sad.

• In Toronto, 81 per cent said they are disgusted with the G20 protests, while 74 per cent are angry, 65 per cent are sad and 61 per cent feel ashamed.

• Seventy-three per cent of Torontonians and 57 per cent of Canadians believe it was a mistake to hold the summit in Toronto.

• Only 31 per cent of Canadians and 46 per cent of Torontonians say they followed the final comments from participating nations closely or moderately closely.

• Fifty-three per cent of Canadians and 86 per cent of Torontonians watched the protests closely or moderately closely.

The poll’s margin of error is plus or minus 3.1 per cent for the Canadian sample, and 4.4 per cent for the Toronto sample, 19 times out of 20.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/830832

So, I think the poll has some merit. I'd agree that the poll is probably accurate within 10 to 15%.



On a side note, is it really true that Charon has never played cIV? That would make a lot of sense.

 

[Venereus]

On a side note, is it really true that Charon has never played cIV? That would make a lot of sense.

It's gotta be, would explain why he's convinced you could change civics on a whimp, and other outrageous claims about Civ IV.

Still, I don't want to just put him in the "newbies like civ V because they don't know the better Civ" box.

 

[DopeJam]

You have to concider the fact that in this poll many people tend to defend what they payed for, not only civ 5, generally, many people do that and I dont know why I've seen than many times

 

[da_Vinci]

Man... Do you know how many interviews are needed to make a sociological study of 50 million people? Maybe 500...

Perhaps the spectrum of this poll is not the best, but with the amount of people who have voted, the margin of error may not be greater than 15%.

Using this on-line calculator http://www.dimensionresearch.com/resources/calculators/conf_prop.html, a sample of 1000 showing a proportion of 50% has a 95% confidence interval of +/- 3.1 percentage points (not 3.1% of the 50%, a common error). The real value in the whole population is likely to lie between 46.9% and 53.1% ... if the sample is representative.

The issue with this poll is not statistical significance, which deals with random error, or sampling error, ideally in the context of random sampling. The issue is more with who does this sample represent ... and is this a biased sample from the perspective of representing the entire set of purchasers of Civ 5? The answer has to be yes (non-forum readers have no way of being included in this poll).

But I don't think that this has to be representative of all Civ 5 purchasers to be meaningful. This poll is saying that nearly half of folks on major fansite who cared to vote, and who presumably both love and understand the franchise, think Civ 5 is a step backward, rather than forward.

Now that may not be representative of all CivFanatics members either, as participation is voluntary and those unhappy may be over-represented. And it may only be a step from A+ to A- (is the game that bad in an absolute sense, or just in a relative sense ... exclusive of performance glitches and focusing on gameplay vision?), but we were expecting A+++.

But rather than argue about whether 47% is a majority (not of the whole sample, but it is the majority of those with an opinion), or try to change people's minds, or insult them for their opinions, energy would be better spent understanding in more detail the concerns of those who think the game has regressed, and how those could be addressed (potentially in ways that could be options, so everyone can have the Civ 5 gameplay they want) to make the game better.

With that in mind, sometime this weekend I expect to post a poll about whether Civ 5 needs to be "smartened up", allowing multiple choices among various areas where improvement may be needed (and the choice of "no, leave it alone" as well).

dV

 

[Thormodr]

It's gotta be, would explain why he's convinced you could change civics on a whimp, and other outrageous claims about Civ IV.

Still, I don't want to just put him in the "newbies like civ V because they don't know the better Civ" box.

Fair enough. That would be a cheap cop out I think.

In fact, that would be as ridiculous an assumption as "DA HATERZ hate ciV becuz itz not cIV.5!!! Hurr hurr...

 

[Toady]

Fair enough. That would be a cheap cop out I think.

In fact, that would be as ridiculous an assumption as "DA HATERZ hate ciV becuz itz not cIV.5!!! Hurr hurr...

Personally i would refuse to be lenient to the "You can only compare it to Civ IV Vanilla" crowd. They deserve any shoehorning or labelling they get.

 

[Wixit]

For all those upset and insulted that such a weak, untested, dumbed down game was released.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=154206564620347

 

[Penwa]

UPDATE ON POLL (10/7): Here is the most recent poll results; Yes - 47.19%, No - 43.35%, Undecided - 9.45%
That is less than 3% needed to take the majority, more than 50%, who agree that Civ 5 has been dumbed down.

Erm, 47.19% is > 43.35% ergo a majority.