Who is the best leader for an "Al Gore" challenge?

[Swein Forkbeard]

After reading VQ09, I decided to start this topic.

For those who don't know, an "Al Gore" challenge refers to beelining for the Internet.

A good leader for an "Al Gore" challenge could probably be Elizabeth. I think Financial is no doubt the best trait for this kind of game, especially since there will no Code of Laws until the Internet is built. And Philosophical, well, let's just say it can be used as a great person spawner.

 

[_ATOMEN]

Kublai is the best leader i think...

 

[jerVL/kg]

Having done The Al Gore Challenge myself, I would say that ORGANIZED is the most important trait. Without Code of Laws, city maintenance is a killer.

Financial would help, too. Unfortunately, if you have Warlords, there's no longer a Fin/Org leader...

My personal recommendation would be Asoka (Spi/Org) if for no other reason than to grab Buddhism early. Founding an early religion can be essential to keeping your economy afloat, as well as converting your neighbors to the same faith, so they don't attack you.

Good luck with the challenge, and let us know how it goes, ok?

 

[lilnev]

Al Gore certainly seems like an Organized person. And perhaps Industrious? He made a movie -- does that mean he's Creative? But whatever you choose, it musn't be Charismatic. Not his strength at all.

peace,
lilnev

 

[acidsatyr]

internet is so far away that choosing your traits have nothing to do with it

 

[jerVL/kg]

Industrious can help you build the early Wonders, esp. the Pyramids, which is your only chance to use Representation / Universal Suffrage until the Internet is built. My game was with Gandhi (pre-Warlords) and had stone in the fat cross, which was .

Philosophical probably isn't that useful -- most of the "lightbulb" techs are ones that aren't on the beeline, and you'll probably end up with mostly Engineers & Prophets anyway. Expansive could be beneficial, since it will make up for the lack of agri/animal loving resources. Perhaps Victoria (Exp/Fin)? The downside is you probably won't get your own religion...unless you skip Civil Service and take the Mono/Theocracy path instead.

I can't see Creative giving any advantage at all.

 

[HiroHito]

When I saw the title i thought for a second, al gore's challenge = losing to dubya

 

[thefais]

I think the starting techs are more important... I'm not sure what you specifically need for that 'beeline', but not having agriculture would be most ungood.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

[size=-2]
CR2 - Now in tech tree order
CR1 - Fencepost error corrected
[/size]​

I think the starting techs are more important... I'm not sure what you specifically need for that 'beeline', but not having agriculture would be most ungood.

Fishing
The Wheel
Mysticism
Mining
Sailing
Pottery
Masonry
Bronze Working
Writing
Metal Casting
Iron Working
Mathematics
Monarchy (Priesthood, Monotheism)
Compass
Calendar
Construction
Currency
Machinery
Engineering
Feudalism
Optics
Guilds
Paper (Civil Service, Theology)
Banking
Printing Press
Replaceable Parts
Gunpowder
Astronomy
Chemistry
Scientific Method
Steel
Physics
Electricity
Radio
Computers
Fiber Optics (Satellites, Plastics)

 

[cabert]

^^VoU, The Internet is enabled by fiber optics, which requires either satellites or plastic + computer.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

^^VoU, The Internet is enabled by fiber optics, which requires either satellites or plastic + computer.

Fencepost error - the script that I put together to evaluate the beeline didn't include the destination tech itself.

Fixed.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

internet is so far away that choosing your traits have nothing to do with it

That would surprise me, if true, as it would suggest that the restriction to these techs affects all traits in a balanced fashion.

For example, Education is blocked on the beeline. So Philosophical can't build its cheap universities until the Internet project is completed. The GP bonus is still present, but lightbulbing becomes an issue; the Great Scientist is blocked by Education, the Great Prophet by one of Meditation/Polytheism, the Great Artist by Alphabet until Radio comes along. It looks like Engineers and Merchants are ok (I haven't looked in detail).

Compare this to Aggressive: Barracks is still available, Drydock is still available, Melee units are still there until Rifles (I think) The combat I promotion is still there.

If you are playing it hard core (cannot start with the food techs), I've got to believe that you are going to notice the 9 health that you can easily score in the Ancient era.

It may be that it doesn't matter - Aggressive being unsuitable for deep game research is balanced by Philosphical being handicapped.

 

[Quagga]

This piqued my curiosity, so I gave it a try. But perhaps I didn't understand the rules.

It seems as though you're supposed to click on Fiber Optics and then not touch the research controls until you get there. But the game will select the techs to research in a most disadvantageous fashion. I found myself researching something unnecessary like Compass, when I needed a vital, basic technology.

 

[CivMonger]

the game will go with whatever techs it needs along the path to get to the itnernet. I'd assume one would trade some techs for the basic food and whatnot, given that you'll likely be pretty deep down a specific tree while most others get everything. I know when I tech I generally go for general as opposed to a specific kind of tech route.

 

[jerVL/kg]

It looks like Engineers and Merchants are ok (I haven't looked in detail).

Engineers eventually get blocked by Steam Power, although they can lightbulb many useful techs before then (Machinery, Feudalism, Guilds.) Merchants can bulb Currency & Banking, but later get blocked by Economics/Corporation. I *think* a Scientist will unlock Scientific Method or Physics, but can't be sure of this.

An ideal Internet Beeline start would include lots of seafood, precious metals, and Calendar resources -- use the extras to trade for grains & animals. If you're very lucky, you can trade for Ivory / Coal / Aluminum (Horses & Oil are useless.) The nice thing about the beeline is that you get Chemistry/Rifling very quickly, so it's easy to press your advantage with Grennies & Rifles in the middle ages. The bad news is that's the best army you'll have for a long time...

Another bottleneck is production. You'll get no factories or railroads, and your Ironworks will be running at 50% power unless you can trade for coal. Therefore, you'll need to choose your main production city very carefully (and probably move the capital there, to leverage the Bureaucracy bonus); adding GPs & GEs as super specialists will aid tremendously. Remember, it's not just a matter of acquiring the techs that unlock the Internet -- you still have to build the damn thing!!

I'd love to see a "true" Internet beeline, which AFAIK has never been done -- VQ09 started with Agriculture & Hunting (although their choice of UB, a barracks that reduces city maintance, was brilliant) and in my game, I had to "cheat" for several early techs just to remain competitive.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

An ideal Internet Beeline start would include lots of seafood, precious metals, and Calendar resources -- use the extras to trade for grains & animals.

I'm not very confident that trading thing works.

Check out the following screenie

Notice that the corn is farmed, and connected to the city by the river, but that the corn doesn't appear on the resource list. If I drop into world builder, and give Izzy Agriculture, it immediately appears. Take Agriculture away again, and **poof** it's gone.

That says to me that you can't use the resource even though it is improved, under your control, and you are connected to it. Which strongly suggests that you cannot capture farms and get the corn that way.

For this reason, I'm not certain that trading for the grain (if that is even allowed without Agriculture) gives you the bonus.

 

[jerVL/kg]

That says to me that you can't use the resource even though it is improved, under your control, and you are connected to it. Which strongly suggests that you cannot capture farms and get the corn that way.

For this reason, I'm not certain that trading for the grain (if that is even allowed without Agriculture) gives you the bonus.

You can trade for ANY resource as long as your neighbor has access to it. For example, if the AI builds Broadway, you can get Hit Musicals from them even if you don't have Electricity.

It's true that you need the technology to access any resource that you own -- so if you capture a city with existing farms & pastures, you get the food bonus, but not the health. The sole exception appears to be Oil -- in my game, I was able to culturally steal an oil well from America, which gave me Oil despite not having Combustion. I wasn't able to build anything with it, but I could trade it away.

 

[KMadCandy]

You can trade for ANY resource as long as your neighbor has access to it. For example, if the AI builds Broadway, you can get Hit Musicals from them even if you don't have Electricity.

comes in handy when fur/ivory/whales go obsolete, if you have a neighbor that hasn't discovered the tech yet. you can still get them in trade from him for happiness.

 

[Mutineer]

Yes, from general, not specially created start civ with Agreeculture+hunting starting tech is probably the best.

 

[cabert]

comes in handy when fur/ivory/whales go obsolete, if you have a neighbor that hasn't discovered the tech yet. you can still get them in trade from him for happiness.

yep, that's what vassals are for