Who Is The Greatest Empire In History ?

[Moshe Dayan]

they never held that much land.

I know

 

[Lord Baal]

so the roman people were from anatolia... it figures.

Probably. Not sure what you mean by "it figures" though.

They claimed to be Trojans fleeing the sack of Troy (see: Livy for instance). But in all honesty it doesn't really matter a wit.

Correct on both counts.

While genetics supports the Asian minor origin for Etruscans, I don't think the same genes have been detected in roman populations. Romans also spoke an Indo-European language, while Etruscans spoke a language (probably) similar to Anatolian languages. I think they just adopted the legend from the Etruscans, or maybe all those people moving to Rome over the years outbred any Anatolian genes.

Either could be correct to be honest. There was a lot of immigration into Rome, and the original inhabitants were likely local tribesmen anyway. The Romans weren't Etruscans, after all, they were simply ruled by them. Still, when I think of the Romans, I think of the elite classes, which makes me think Etruscan or Etruscan-influenced again.

The Israeli Empire.

What are you basing that on? Israel has never been that size, and even the biggest nationalist nutjobs tend to have more serious aspirations.

 

[Lord Baal]

they never held that much land.

They do on my last game of CIV.

 

[vogtmurr]

It looks about like the effective strike perimeter of their armed forces though. Those are modern borders it is superimposed on.

 

[Moshe Dayan]

I googled "Israeli Empire" and that's the first thing that came up. If I wanted something more realistic, I could have posted the territory Israel controlled after the Six-day war, though I don't consider that an empire.

 

[Masada]

If anything you attacked a poor choice of words on my part which stemmed from a discussion directly based on that post, which I then corrected. After which you decided to keep going for no reason at all. You chose to attach my words to an argument with viewpoints that you had prearranged counter-points to, like here;

Dude, I can't mind read. And you did a piss-poor job of correcting it, if that's what you did - and I somehow doubt that in light of [below].

I never ONCE said that there was one single "Roman Ethnicity," rather that the populations that made up the empire distilled into population groups that emigrated to the new world and that people with "Romanic" physical features exist.

"Romanic" meaning what? Your not helping yourself here.

Even if such a point is "irrelevant" in your opinion, at least admit that the argument you entered into afterward had nothing to do with anything.

It was irrelevant. Hell, I even demonstrated what I was talking about before you posted.

Oh, let's not pretend like your posts have anything to do with inspiring critical thinking. You're here to prove how much "biting wit" you have

Well, in your case, no. In general, they seem to work.

Nope, you had better ways to stimulate critical thinking, like choosing to attack something that didnt exist.

I've already said I gave you far to much credit.

No, no, really. Since you know so much about the way I think, enlighten me. If you're gonna call someone a slave-apologist, take responsibility for it.

"Slave-apologist"?

 

[Communisto]

Whatever, man. You're not here to discuss anything and this is going no where. I'm not even arguing any point that you disagree with, you're just being difficult for no reason. Are you saying that people who have similar physical features as this don't exist?

as for

"Slave-apologist"?

Come on, grow some balls. Don't accuse me of something so grave as "apologizing for slavery" without backing it up.

 

[Lord Baal]

He was mocking you for saying "slave-apologist" rather than "slavery-apologist." The former implies that you're defending slaves. And he'd be calling you a "slavery-apologist" because of how long you spent recently defending the South and claiming the North started the ACW. Between Dachs, LS and I we changed his mind about that Masa.

 

[Communisto]

He was mocking you for saying "slave-apologist" rather than "slavery-apologist."

I know that, he also knew what I meant.

Look, my problem is that the prevailing attitude with a lot of people in this forum is that they're not here to discuss anything. Rather they're much more interested in making sarcastic comments and taking a conflicting historical interpretation personally.

 

[Masada]

Whatever, man. You're not here to discuss anything and this is going no where. I'm not even arguing any point that you disagree with, you're just being difficult for no reason. Are you saying that people who have similar physical features as this don't exist?

So we're back at ethnicity, basically. Way to go.

Come on, grow some balls. Don't accuse me of something so grave as "apologizing for slavery" without backing it up.

Dude you apologised for the freaking South. As clear an apology for slavery as your going to get.

 

[Communisto]

So we're back at ethnicity, basically. Way to go.

Ugh, were only back to it because YOU chose ask me specifically what I meant by "Romanic" physical features.

Dude you apologised for the freaking South. As clear an apology for slavery as your going to get.

I asked questions in regards to a period of history that I was unclear on. I was misinformed in some respects and after considering new information that was brought to my attention in that thread, have since re-evaluated my thoughts on the subject. You know, a discussion?

 

[Masada]

Ugh, were only back to it because YOU chose ask me specifically what I meant by "Romanic" physical features. Are you denying that there are who people look like that?

I'm suggesting that it didn't freaking matter. You were Roman if you had a classical education, spoke Latin, had citizenship and embraced all the other identifiers of Roman identity. Heck the Romans invited in a foreign Etruscans magnate to rule them. The Julia (of Julius Caesar fame) were originally Latins from Alba Longa. The Claudii (of Julio-Claudian fame) were originally Sabines. The Furii were of Latin stock again, this time from Tusculum. The Bruttii were freaking Oscans from around Magna Graecia. You could even be a coloured Roman. Saint Maurice was apparently a black Roman Saint. Septimius Severus was part Punic. Philip 'the Arab' was part probably Arab. Italy apparently still has remnants of Magna Graecia bouncing around it the form of Griko speakers.

I asked questions in regards to a period of history that I was unclear on. I was misinformed in some respects and after considering new information that was brought to my attention in that thread, have since re-evaluated my thoughts on the subject. You know, a discussion?

That's the polite way of putting it.

 

[Communisto]

For Christ's sake I never suggested that "Roman" was a specific ethnicity which translated to modern Italians or some non-sense like that. The only reason I brought up that statue and its physical features was as an example of populations being descended from those that existed within the boundaries of the empire and still existing today. I don't have a friggin view in contrast to any of the irrelevant facts that you have just pulled out of wikipedia. Get that through your head.

That's the polite way of putting it.

Oh, I'm sorry...

SLAVERY FTW!

 

[Masada]

For Christ's sake I never suggested that "Roman" was a specific ethnicity which translated to modern Italians or some non-sense like that. The only reason I brought up that statue and its physical features was as an example of populations being descended from those that existed within the boundaries of the empire and still existing today. I don't have a friggin view in contrast to anything that you have just said. Get that through your head.

Your mistake is that you conflated an identity with an ethnicity i.e. "Roman" with "Romanic". The former died out as people went and adopted other identities. The Romano-British became Anglo-Saxons despite the latter being a small minority. The Romans in Gaul did much the same for the Visigoths and the Franks. Much as they had when the Romans came onto the scene. The underlying population never really changed. Likewise, the "Italians" (in the geographic sense) continued to look like "Italians" had long before Rome came about. But that doesn't mean that "Roman" as a mark of identity survived which was exactly my point. It died out. For an indication of just how asisine this kind of discussion is have a look at the pictures below. They were all Roman. But they don't have "Romanic" features.

Spoiler dark swarthy Egyptian-Roman :

Spoiler blunt nosed Arab-Roman :

Spoiler curly haired Semantic-Roman :

Also taking public sculpture designed for propaganda purposes as a literal representation of anything is silly.

 

[Tee Kay]

What are you basing that on? Israel has never been that size, and even the biggest nationalist nutjobs tend to have more serious aspirations.

I think it was made by some fringe Zionist group who was advocating an Israel from the Nile to the Euphrates during the Mandate Era. Can't remember their name though.

 

[Lord Baal]

I think it was made by some fringe Zionist group who was advocating an Israel from the Nile to the Euphrates during the Mandate Era. Can't remember their name though.

Pretty damn fringe. Also pretty damn unrealistic, considering the difficulty Israel has holding the territory it has now.

 

[Masada]

protip: ethnic cleansing solves all your indissoluble ethno-religious problems

 

[Tee Kay]

Pretty damn fringe. Also pretty damn unrealistic, considering the difficulty Israel has holding the territory it has now.

Not to mention the border would be damn ugly.

 

[Lord Baal]

protip: ethnic cleansing solves all your indissoluble ethno-religious problems

Kind of hard to ethnically cleanse people that outnumber you by such a ridiculous amount though.

 

[Quackers]

British Empire >> all.