Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Lore' started by Grey Fox, Apr 7, 2008.
Crusade is compassionate? That's hilarious!
Shouldn't Protect the Meek, Republic and Liberty also be compassionate?
Balseraph version of Liberty isn't
I would think that, more than the literal "you treat your people well", really a "hey, you really go out of your way for the good cause!!" (or, in the negative version: "did you ever know that you're my hero? You're mass murderer I always wanted to be") is meant.
I vote Cassiel as the top good person.
He makes the most sense and seems to be the logical to me in terms of ethics.
I do think Cas is on the "good" side of neutral, but as for calling him the most good leader in the game? He is too willing to make hard decisions a truly good leader never could. I remain convinced as far as pure goodness goes, no one can top Ethne.
It was kinda sarcastic as him being the top good leader but I do think his logic makes the most sense and ethics are the closest to my own.
That may be so, but that does not mean YOU are good.
Well it is hard to make a linear system of good and bad. It is all just ethics and it is hard to discern the people that are "good" from many who are more "neutral". Even with many "Evil" nations they have there own reasons for doing what they do, they think it may better the world, then there are those who are just sadistic.
New player here but I am also throwing in my vote for Cassiel as the most good of the lot.
The rest want to control and dominate mankind for whatever purpose, good or bad. Only Cassiel wants mankind to be truly free, so he is the true hero to me. Even if some of the angels are trying to be kind, they are still trying to dominate mankind, really you have to decide if you value benovlence or freedom more, which is a value judgment and subjective person to person.
I'd say that Cassiel ties with the Elohim leaders as the most good (unless we are talking about good as anti-evil, in which case neither is especially good)
Sirona also doesn't really try to dominate. She is the least active of the god(desses), except of course for Arawn who refuses to intervene in Creation at all. The Spirit/Wisdom sphere is all about putting others before oneself, not compelling others to do so. (It is often in conflict with the law sphere (I don't consider Law/Junil to be all that good) and especially unquestioning obediance.)
Sirona was pleased when Immanuel Logos chose to leave her service in order to care for the orphans of the Godswar, regardless of their religious beliefs. Although she continued to fight against Aeron, she recognized that mankind needed this type of help more than gods warring in their name. The Order of the Elohim was founded by those who joined him in helping these orphans, many of whom were among the orphans themselves. I consider Immanuel to be the most good character in FfH. I suspect that Cassiel might agree. I've always considered the Elohim and Grigori to be natural allies.
IMO Cassiel wants free will in the theological sense, rather than an Utopia, even though his personal inclinations are good.
Agreed. He supports free will, for better or for worse. If mankind's will is to be evil, Cassiel would accept that, although not happily.
What do you mean in a theological sense? He clearly thinks worshiping gods is a bad idea, even if he will not activley try to purge those that do, he wants no theology to exist.
This really depends on how you define good, what is "good"-what do you want? Do you value altruism or free will more? They are distinct concepts, which is the supreme virtue? I think free will is more important then altruism.
This is what I mean it is ethics. I see no linear progression of good to evil, you can't say one leader is better than another or slightly eviler than another one. It's complex... one leader may be more ethical(good) in one area than in another compared to a different leader, or a leader may feel that they are the ethical(good) one where the other leader thinks they are the good one.
@Euthorcize: Erebus isn't a world like ours, and Cassiel knows - first-hand! - that the Gods can't be expected to play by the rules they laid down (the Compact, I mean). His beef against Erebus religions is, the way I see it, that they reduce their worshipers to pawns of the higher beings, even when those are enlightened. So, like the intellectuals leading a revolution, he took it upon himself to champion a view where religion is separated from te state (religions can spread in his empire, but can't influence the direction it will take).
He's a realist, and a rationalist: religion is there already, best he can do, he thinks, is to render it a mere private thing.
That depends entirely on the target.
(War is sometimes the answer)
True. "War is not the answer" always begs the question: "What is the question?" What if the question is "what is not the answer?"?
yeah, that's kinda not what I meant.
Separate names with a comma.