Who is to blame for starting the Iraq war?

[skadistic]

Sadam and his cease fire violations crimes against humanity and non-complience with the paper tiger UN that couldn't enforce its own mandates.

 

[Mark1031]

Saddam, if he had just let the inspectors poke around and confirm he didn't have any WMD's, the faulty intelligence would have been exposed for what it was, faulty.

Sorry that one doesn;t fly.

U.S advises weapons inspectors to leave Iraq 3/17/2003
VIENNA, Austria (AP) — In the clearest sign yet that war with Iraq is imminent, the United States has advised U.N. weapons inspectors to begin pulling out of Baghdad, the U.N. nuclear agency chief said Monday.

Mohamed ElBaradei, head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, said the recommendation was given late Sunday night both to his Vienna-based agency hunting for atomic weaponry and to the New York-based teams looking for biological and chemical weapons.

"Late last night ... I was advised by the U.S. government to pull out our inspectors from Baghdad," ElBaradei told the IAEA's board of governors. He said U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan and the Security Council were informed and that the council would take up the issue later Monday.

U.N. officials have said the inspectors and support staff still in Iraq could be evacuated in as little as 48 hours.

No one has yet given the order for the inspectors to begin pulling out, and they were working on Monday. Most of the teams' helicopters have left Iraq because their insurance was canceled, chief U.N. inspector Hans Blix said, and the personnel level was low because of a scheduled rotation home.

IAEA spokeswoman Melissa Fleming said the nuclear agency would wait for Security Council guidance later Monday before deciding whether to pull out its inspectors.

The teams, which returned to Iraq on Nov. 27 after a nearly four-year absence, drew up contingency plans to evacuate even before their redeployment.

"A lot depends on the Iraqis," a senior U.N. inspector told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity. "If they let us use aircraft to get out, we could be gone in 48 hours or even less. If they won't let us fly out, we would have to drive to a border, and that could mean an eight-hour journey across hot desert. It would take longer, but we would get out."

Inspectors have experience in getting out of Iraq in a hurry: In December 1998, they pulled out on the eve of U.S.-British airstrikes amid allegations that Baghdad was not cooperating with the teams.

There have been some concerns that the Iraqis might hold the inspectors as human shields in case of a conflict. But Iraq's foreign minister appeared to play down those fears in a live television interview on the al-Arabiya Arabic satellite channel Sunday night.

"The inspectors came by a decision of the Security Council, which decides on their departure," Naji Sabri said.

ElBaradei told the nuclear agency's 35-nation governing board Monday that he was worried about the safety of the teams, yet still held out hope that war could be averted.

"Naturally the safety of our staff remains our primary consideration at this difficult time," he said. "I earnestly hope — even at this late hour — that a peaceful resolution of the issue can be achieved, and that the world can be spared a war."

ElBaradei, who has been monitoring the situation day to day, also confirmed that he and Blix had received an invitation from Baghdad "to visit Iraq with a view toward accelerating the implementation of our respective mandates." He did not say whether he or Blix had accepted.

"I should note that in recent weeks, possibly as a result of increasing pressure by the international community, Iraq has been more forthcoming in its cooperation with the IAEA," he said, adding that inspectors still have found no evidence that Saddam Hussein has revived his nuclear program.

But with the United States, Britain and Spain making clear that Monday would be the final day for diplomatic efforts to avert a conflict, it appeared that the inspectors were running out of time and could begin withdrawing at any moment.

In other signs that war could be imminent, the U.S. State Department on Sunday night ordered nonessential personnel and all family members to leave Israel, Kuwait and Syria in a precautionary move.

Germany closed its embassy in Baghdad on Monday after calling on its citizens to leave Iraq "immediately," and Britain advised all its citizens except diplomatic staff to leave Kuwait as soon as possible, citing a potential threat from war in neighboring Iraq.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-03-17-inspectors-iraq_x.htm

 

[skadistic]

Sorry that one doesn;t fly.






http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-03-17-inspectors-iraq_x.htm

So the fact that Sadam moved things out of buildings and sites before allowing inspection, held up inspectors for full access to sites and even barred inspectors from sites has nothing to do with anything?

 

[woody60707]

Congress. Funny, last time i looked, It was congress that was charged with powers of war. No where does it say it can pass the right (buck) to anyone. (POTUS and such) And that is what congress did.

And be honest, you know your poll is skewed when you made it.

 

[MobBoss]

Sorry that one doesn;t fly.

Actually, yes, it does fly. Please read your UN resolutions. Saddam had plenty of chances to comply, come clean, and ensure that a war did not occur. He failed to do so.

Your poll is extremely incomplete without having a choice for Saddam in it.

I would vote Saddam carries the primary responsibility.

 

[woody60707]

So the fact that Sadam moved things out of buildings and sites before allowing inspection, held up inspectors for full access to sites and even barred inspectors from sites has nothing to do with anything?

The facts are pretty clear and are with skadistic on this one. Not only was it the U.S. intel that believe that iraq was hiding weapons from the U.N., Most the world government had that same intel believe that too.

 

[Mark1031]

Your poll is extremely incomplete without having a choice for Saddam in it.

I would vote Saddam carries the primary responsibility.

What overt action did Saddam take to "Start the War". Starting a war requires an overt military action like droping tons of bombs and moving in 100s of thousands of soldiers. There is no interpretation of reality in which Saddam did that. I obviously skewed the poll because it is about starting a war not being a bad guy.

And please with the UN resolutions. How many UN resolutions is Israel not in compliance with? Have they declared war on the world?

 

[Mark1031]

The facts are pretty clear and are with skadistic on this one. Not only was it the U.S. intel that believe that iraq was hiding weapons from the U.N., Most the world government had that same intel believe that too.

Did you read the OP? The world thought he might have a stockpile of old chemical weapons. Not a big deal. Bush was pushing him as a nuclear threat. Weapons inspectors were in Iraq and the goverment was being more cooperative and WE ordered the inspectors OUT so we could INVADE. You can;t find something that isn;t there as we have found out.

 

[skadistic]

What overt action did Saddam take to "Start the War". Starting a war requires an overt military action like droping tons of bombs and moving in 100s of thousands of soldiers. There is no interpretation of reality in which Saddam did that. I obviously skewed the poll because it is about starting a war not being a bad guy.

And please with the UN resolutions. How many UN resolutions is Israel not in compliance with? Have they declared war on the world?

Repeated cease fire violations repeted flauting of the UN mandates. And I'll toss in the gassing of the kurds draining the mash and destroying the marsh arabs way of life both a humanitary and ecological crime. Oh and for good measure the whole sale slaughter of shia. The last for don't warrent but do warrent assination at the least.




As per your weak Israeli comparision you don't have a leg to stand on with that.


Bush never pushed Sadan as a nuke threat.

 

[Mark1031]

As per your weak Israeli comparision you don't have a leg to stand on with that.
.

Could you explain why??

 

[puglover]

I don't think blame is the right word. The war may bring good to the country in time.

 

[Mark1031]

Bush never pushed Sadan as a nuke threat.

Rice: "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud"

Cheney: "Iraq has reconstituted its nulcear weapons program"

 

[skadistic]

Could you explain why??

Its been gone over a few times in OT. Most of the UN resolutions against Israel are bogus and repremand Israel for defending it self. What you should do is list all the resolutions against Israel then explain exactly why they were drafted and exactly what they were in regards to. If you can't then just list the resolutions and wait for one of the Israelis to explain it to you. Like I said its been done before.

And since pointing to Israel has nothing to do with Iraq its kind of a pointless comparision to begin with.

 

[GenMarshall]

Bush is the one who clamored and started the unjust war.

 

[Sidhe]

Bush never pushed Sadan as a nuke threat.

This speech by Bush would tend to prove otherwise.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021007-8.html

Many people have asked how close Saddam Hussein is to developing a nuclear weapon. Well, we don't know exactly, and that's the problem. Before the Gulf War, the best intelligence indicated that Iraq was eight to ten years away from developing a nuclear weapon. After the war, international inspectors learned that the regime has been much closer -- the regime in Iraq would likely have possessed a nuclear weapon no later than 1993. The inspectors discovered that Iraq had an advanced nuclear weapons development program, had a design for a workable nuclear weapon, and was pursuing several different methods of enriching uranium for a bomb.

Before being barred from Iraq in 1998, the International Atomic Energy Agency dismantled extensive nuclear weapons-related facilities, including three uranium enrichment sites. That same year, information from a high-ranking Iraqi nuclear engineer who had defected revealed that despite his public promises, Saddam Hussein had ordered his nuclear program to continue.

The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program. Saddam Hussein has held numerous meetings with Iraqi nuclear scientists, a group he calls his "nuclear mujahideen" -- his nuclear holy warriors. Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at sites that have been part of its nuclear program in the past. Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons.

If the Iraqi regime is able to produce, buy, or steal an amount of highly enriched uranium a little larger than a single softball, it could have a nuclear weapon in less than a year. And if we allow that to happen, a terrible line would be crossed. Saddam Hussein would be in a position to blackmail anyone who opposes his aggression. He would be in a position to dominate the Middle East. He would be in a position to threaten America. And Saddam Hussein would be in a position to pass nuclear technology to terrorists.

 

[amadeus]

Saddam Hussein; why is that not an option?

 

[skadistic]

Rice: "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud"

Cheney: "Iraq has reconstituted its nulcear weapons program"

Well since neither one of them is Bush......................
Dr. Rice said "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud" how exactly does that say Sadam has nukes?
And when exactly did Dicky boy say that? And Sadam had most of what he needed to start his nuke programme up rather quickly. All it would have taken is no inspections and a lift on sanctions. Both of wich Sadam was well on his to via bribes.

 

[Mark1031]

Its been gone over a few times in OT. Most of the UN resolutions against Israel are bogus and repremand Israel for defending it self. What you should do is list all the resolutions against Israel then explain exactly why they were drafted and exactly what they were in regards to. If you can't then just list the resolutions and wait for one of the Israelis to explain it to you. Like I said its been done before.

And since pointing to Israel has nothing to do with Iraq its kind of a pointless comparision to begin with.

So are you saying violating UN resolutions is OK if they are "bogus". Fine I'll buy that. But then you can't say that violating them is justification for war.

BTW who determines they are bogus? You? the US? The country they target? The UN bogus resoultions commission?

 

[skadistic]

This speech by Bush would tend to prove otherwise.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021007-8.html

Care to highlite where exactly Bush said Sadam has nukes?

 

[skadistic]

So are you saying violating UN resolutions is OK if they are "bogus". Fine I'll buy that. But then you can't say that violating them is justification for war.

BTW who determines they are bogus? You? the US? The country they target? The UN bogus resoultions commission?

Why not look at what the UN resolutions say exactly in regards to Israel and put them in context with what was realy happening. But do it in another thread since it has nothing to do with Iraq.