Who picks which civs make it into the game?

[m15a]

Yeah, maybe the decisions I attributed to 2k above (how many civs in base game, which are saved for DLC) are performed by the producers at Firaxis (i.e., Shirk) instead.

 

[Xandinho]

Marketing is one of the main reason, but not the only one.

That seems far-fetched. And what's the impact of the Olympics, really?

Brazilians are more likely to hear about and buy the game if Brazil is included. IIRC, Brazil is the 5th or 4th largest Steam playerbase, but only the 10th or so Civ5 playerbase. So there's a gap to fill, and that may explain why Brazil is being included and why the game is finally being officially translated to Portuguese. And the Olympics have nothing to do with all that.

Now, if you are not Brazilian and wasn't sure if you should buy the game, did Brazil inclusion changed your mind? But it's hosting the Olympics, what about that? I can't imagine this going on: "-America, China, Rome... meh. Wait, Brazil? The host of the 2016 Summer Olympics? Where do I pre-order?"

If anything, Brazil's inclusion may help dissuading a few people from buying it.

This, it is marketing my friend
And if the game come in Portuguese, only reinforces what I say.
I'm sure the developers do not want to overlook one of the world's largest games markets.
Brazil is moving towards becoming a fixed civilization in the game

 

[tedhebert]

Regardless of which you are on in the euro debate (whether the civs are too euro-centric or not), I think everyone can agree that the decisions were made for marketing purposes. Does this mean that the marketers have a huge say in which civs to put in? Is there a situation where Ed Beach or some other developer thinks "hey it would be cool to put in more non-euro civs" and then marketing is like "no."

I too do not agree with that affirmation. I think Ed is the leader here, he leads a team and the team brainstorms on the subject and all and Ed decides in the end.

I also think that Ed is ALSO marketing savvy, and is able to balance cool, geek civ choices with historically relevant choices and marketing choices... Give the guy a little credit here !!!

 

[Haggbart]

The heart of the matter is: whatever choice they'd made would've made some people unhappy.

I think the devs tried to maximize all the different interests the best they could: interesting leaders, geographic variation, personal preferences, quirky choices, popular choices, player markets and potential player markets.

I can't imagine marketing people getting too involved in the dev process, but I do believe the devs had some ideas themselves of which markets to satisfy to max sales.

 

[isau]

That seems far-fetched. And what's the impact of the Olympics, really?

Brazilians are more likely to hear about and buy the game if Brazil is included. IIRC, Brazil is the 5th or 4th largest Steam playerbase, but only the 10th or so Civ5 playerbase. So there's a gap to fill, and that may explain why Brazil is being included and why the game is finally being officially translated to Portuguese. And the Olympics have nothing to do with all that.

Now, if you are not Brazilian and wasn't sure if you should buy the game, did Brazil inclusion changed your mind? But it's hosting the Olympics, what about that? I can't imagine this going on: "-America, China, Rome... meh. Wait, Brazil? The host of the 2016 Summer Olympics? Where do I pre-order?"

If anything, Brazil's inclusion may help dissuading a few people from buying it.

Brazil has a big population and economy, but so does Korea. It's not far fetched at all. Brazil is a trending topic all over Facebook, Twitter, and other social media. One of the buildings used for portions of the Olympics is a World Wonder in the game. The Brazil video launched shortly before the Olympics began. The Olympics almost certain had a role in bumping Brazil up in the rankings. It's not a shoe-on civ at all. If the Olympics were in Canada or Australia this year I might expect them to have a higher chance of inclusion as well.

I like Brazil as a civ so I am fine with it. I'm just calling it for what it is.

 

[Decius]

If Firaxis and 2K are run like most sizable businesses then the project's team would make such decisions ... until other departments choose to make a fuss. If sales or marketing kicks up such a fuss then the decision would get booted up the chain of command. If it goes far enough upstairs then the people making the decisions aren't familiar with the product and it becomes increasingly difficult for customers to divine any logic from the decisions.

As for the design team's decisions, I suggest we remember they respect Sid's rules, one of which is that a sequel should be 1/3 new stuff.

As for Brazil (if sales/marketing actually had anything to do with it) the Olympics are not a compelling reason. They will be largely forgotten by the time the game is released. The fact that Brazil has become a huge market for PC games ... now that's a compelling reason.

 

[SJSerio]

The heart of the matter is: whatever choice they'd made would've made some people unhappy.

I think the devs tried to maximize all the different interests the best they could: interesting leaders, geographic variation, personal preferences, quirky choices, popular choices, player markets and potential player markets.

I can't imagine marketing people getting too involved in the dev process, but I do believe the devs had some ideas themselves of which markets to satisfy to max sales.

Absolutely... I remember the good old days when a game came out and we bought it and accepted what was available because we enjoyed the experience itself. We didn't get our panties in a bunch over every little nitpick. Yup... thems was the good ol' days... before the internets!!!!

 

[Bast]

I think the devs tried to maximize all the different interests the best they could: interesting leaders, geographic variation, personal preferences, quirky choices, popular choices, player markets and potential player markets.

In Europe yes, not the rest of the world.

 

[JimmyBanks]

America, Aztecs*, China, England, Egypt, France, Germany, Greeks, India, Japan, Romans, and Russia all have to be in the base game, which leaves little room for new and returning civs. Technically speaking, the Aztecs are still in the base game, just locked for 90 days unless you pre-order.

This is something that they need to look at. I agree there are certain civs that need to make it in. My issue this time around is that it would appear we have 2 greek leaders in the base game. I would MUCH PREFER they spent time including another civ in the base game and leaving one of those leaders for DLC or the like.

I think the devs were on the right track having an Athenian leader or a Spartan leader but I would like the Civ to be called Sparta/Athens rather than Greece (It could be done for other Civs as well, I'm just using Greece as an example).

As for who makes those decisions, I think Ed Beach makes the final decision but it would be a collaboration from all the devs who would then take it to Marketing and say, market this.

 

[Aukhenaten]

This is something that they need to look at. I agree there are certain civs that need to make it in. My issue this time around is that it would appear we have 2 greek leaders in the base game. I would MUCH PREFER they spent time including another civ in the base game and leaving one of those leaders for DLC or the like.

If alternate leaders only change the agenda and leader bonus, they're easier to churn out than completely new civs. I'm also willing to bet that Gorgo is an early FLC (like how the Mongols were in Civ V) to get people on board with the idea of buying alternate leader DLC later.

 

[MadDjinn]

If alternate leaders only change the agenda and leader bonus, they're easier to churn out than completely new civs. I'm also willing to bet that Gorgo is an early FLC (like how the Mongols were in Civ V) to get people on board with the idea of buying alternate leader DLC later.

and well, do the 'dirty work' of creating the framework for multiple leaders now, then it's easier to quick create them later.

plus modders.

 

[Matthew.]

Yeah not sure why everyone is just assuming there are two Greek Civs. Doesn't seem likely to me. I, too, agree that it is likely a "test" for future DLC for additional leaders. Testing the waters to see if there is enough interest to add additional leaders for other Civs.

 

[Enrchd Iranium]

Brazil has a big population and economy, but so does Korea. It's not far fetched at all. Brazil is a trending topic all over Facebook, Twitter, and other social media. One of the buildings used for portions of the Olympics is a World Wonder in the game. The Brazil video launched shortly before the Olympics began. The Olympics almost certain had a role in bumping Brazil up in the rankings. It's not a shoe-on civ at all. If the Olympics were in Canada or Australia this year I might expect them to have a higher chance of inclusion as well.

I like Brazil as a civ so I am fine with it. I'm just calling it for what it is.

There are some excellent points. Civ VI has received a marketing boost from the Rio Olympics and Firaxis demoed the Brazilian civ earlier as opposed to later so as to coincide exactly with the games. Just a simple search for "Brazil" on YouTube could take you to the Civ VI Brazil content.

There is another reason why Brazil is in the game, however, as not including them would have left America as the solitary civ in the Americas for the base game. This way, North American and South America each have 1 starting civ!

Personally, I am really excited to try the Brazilian civ and I think it makes for a great choice. I just wish they added Australia or Indonesia or something out there in SE Asia and Oceania. Cramming everything into Europe is just boring, unless it's related to a specific scenario or mod that takes place mostly in Europe.

 

[Slayan]

It all comes down to if your butt hurt because a Civ isn't in the game just don't buy the game.

 

[Sagax]

There is another reason why Brazil is in the game, however, as not including them would have left America as the solitary civ in the Americas for the base game. This way, North American and South America each have 1 starting civ!

The Incas are sending their regards.

 

[Cephme]

One thought.... maybe Civ V players did. Remember they have a access to a lot of data on who actually played what civs through steam. I wonder if at least some of the choices were based on "what civs were most popular in Civ V"

 

[Sobornost]

I think marketing is a major consideration, it certainly has to do with Brazil and Poland, I would guess Norway as well. I am sure Scandinavians have outsized sales of civ for their populations. And if Germany had as many players as, say, Turkey then it might just have a 50/50 shot at being in balanced with the Ottomans instead.

It's a hard act for the devs to keep all considerations even and keep everyone mostly happy, I'm sure they want to present good variety and balance, they have future expansions to consider, money considerations (European civs = money). Maybe the publisher carries some weight with the money side too on civ decisions.

It results in choices that are impossible to satisfy everyone, and definitely hurt when it's you they're not satisfying.

 

[VermelhoRed]

That seems far-fetched. And what's the impact of the Olympics, really?

Brazilians are more likely to hear about and buy the game if Brazil is included. IIRC, Brazil is the 5th or 4th largest Steam playerbase, but only the 10th or so Civ5 playerbase. So there's a gap to fill, and that may explain why Brazil is being included and why the game is finally being officially translated to Portuguese. And the Olympics have nothing to do with all that.

Now, if you are not Brazilian and wasn't sure if you should buy the game, did Brazil inclusion changed your mind? But it's hosting the Olympics, what about that? I can't imagine this going on: "-America, China, Rome... meh. Wait, Brazil? The host of the 2016 Summer Olympics? Where do I pre-order?"

If anything, Brazil's inclusion may help dissuading a few people from buying it.

This, really. Also, if Brazil is so marketable, why not release it as a DLC, it would surely sell more than non-marketable nations like Babylon, right

The Incas are sending their regards.

Send them a hug and tell them we're waiting for them

 

[isau]

This, really. Also, if Brazil is so marketable, why not release it as a DLC, it would surely sell more than non-marketable nations like Babylon, right

They did release it as DLC, for Civ V. It's in Civ VI Vanilla because by the time the next expansion pack comes out next year the Olympics will be over. You sell it now, while it's trending. You don't wait. It's really very simple. I don't fault them for doing this. It's just the smart thing to do.

Meanwhile Brazil wasn't in any Civ game until Civ V's second expansion pack. No disrespect to Brazil as a country. It just isn't a world player like many of the "big list" civs are or the kind of place most people associate with a world history game. If the games had happened in Korea I can almost assure Korea would be in this go-round. Too much free advertising to pass up.

 

[VermelhoRed]

They did release it as DLC, for Civ V. It's in Civ VI Vanilla because by the time the next expansion pack comes out next year the Olympics will be over. You sell it now, while it's trending. You don't wait. It's really very simple. I don't fault them for doing this. It's just the smart thing to do.

Meanwhile Brazil wasn't in any Civ game until Civ V's second expansion pack. No disrespect to Brazil as a country. It just isn't a world player like many of the "big list" civs are or the kind of place most people associate with a world history game.

I don't feel any disrespect, don't worry, but I must say that your "marketing" ideas don't make any sense. See what Liex said in this thread or what sukritact said on the "all leader portraits" thread for example. Also, I think people better start getting used with Brazil or other Latin American countries, because they have been shafted for too long in the Civ franchise, and thankfully that has been mended.