Why are Great Scientists, Engineers and Merchants still on the same counter?

[rexman07]

engineers would be OP if there was no tradeoff with scientists.

That is a simple balancing issue. If the counters were split, obviously the costs would have to go up to compensate.

And I would actually like to see a little more balance between the great people types. Unless I'm just fundamentally wrong about good strategy in this game, Scientist specialists (+3 beakers) and Engineer specialists (+2 hammers) seem better than Merchant specialists (+2 gold), and Academies (+8 science? plus two techs that increase it by 2?) are much better than a Customs House (+4 gold), and bulbing for lots of science also seems better than a trade mission (it's also faster and easier).

 

[Alzadar]

I'd prefer if they just balanced out the numbers a bit. Science will always be king, but I am more referring to the plant vs. one-time use issue. If you could put down a customs house or manufactory and get a decent pay-back, I'd be more tempted to use them.

I mean comparing a measly +4 GPT to a late-game GS bulb is just laughable. Even on separate timers I'm not sure I'd even bother wasting working the specialist slot for that.

Honestly Customs Houses could give ~15 gold and still they wouldn't be even worth considering next to a Great Scientist. If they're not going to balance the three Great People (which would be difficult), they should at least unchain them from each other so that Great Merchants are an option.

Merchant slots should also be made stronger, as per above.

 

[rexman07]

I made a similar post last month, dissecting why I feel that the Great Person system in Civ 5 (and Civ 4!) is not as fun a game mechanic as it could be. These are the feel-bad moments I wrote about:

• The shared counters between Great Scientist/Engineer/Merchants and across your cities makes you feel like your cities and Great Person types are competing with each other.
• So many of your Great Person Points are wasted (if a city can never hope to fill the constantly-expanding bucket), which also makes the mechanic less strategically interesting.
• When you get a "free" Great Person and it immediately increments the counter.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=502648

 

[Hippocrates]

Merchants of Venice are supposed to be better, because Venice can only produce things in their capital, and are 100% reliant on gold. Venice can't win ANY of the World Congress competitions, and there's no way to build anything else while constructing a wonder.

I've easily gotten WC projects as Venice up to at least emperor. Puppets normally work on those projects after completing their current building unless there is something important.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Generally..
The Manufactury and Custom House need a bump ... to maybe 6 and 8 (with +2 in Renaissance instead of +1)

Then give the Merchant ~50% increase in its trade mission yield. (keep Venice MoV trade missions to the same value)

 

[Pythakoreas]

I made a similar post last month, dissecting why I feel that the Great Person system in Civ 5 (and Civ 4!) is not as fun a game mechanic as it could be. These are the feel-bad moments I wrote about:

• The shared counters between Great Scientist/Engineer/Merchants and across your cities makes you feel like your cities and Great Person types are competing with each other.
• So many of your Great Person Points are wasted (if a city can never hope to fill the constantly-expanding bucket), which also makes the mechanic less strategically interesting.
• When you get a "free" Great Person and it immediately increments the counter.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=502648

Totally agree. The Free Great People hurting your counter did not exist in Vanilla if I remember right.

 

[compwiz1202]

Also strange that GPT doesn't affect GM at all like with the other two. If you are making more gold, the GM should be more powerful.

Also, on a similar note, why can't GE be the same. The only way to get the full potential is to have weaker production on a newer wonder. Why can't it just give a flat production addition the same way a GS gives science. Then you could get your multiple buildings or older wonders.