Why aren't the Jews a playable civilisation in Civ games?

[CheScott]

1. I'll admit yeah, their influence is pretty much entirely religious.

2. Yeah, America does fund Israel and yes they do kill off Muslims... but I'm not just about to label one side as evil and one side as good. The palestinians are almost inhumanly evil. I'm sorry but you can't strap bombs onto women, children, and the mentally challenged and go "Oh well we are fighting evil!"
This is less Nazis vs Innocents and more organized Nazi vs unorganized Nazi, not literally of course but I mean Nazi as in what most people think of when they think Nazi. ...That probably doesn't make much sense. If it doesn't, please say so and I'll drum up a better analogy.
But again, even if you think Israel is some evil nation, are you going to say they're worse than Mao or Stalin?
If they aren't, then why should evil deeds keep them from being in Civ alongside both of those leaders?

Well, I think the best analogy is the Stanford Prisoner study. Now, don't get me wrong, there are some valid arguments regarding flaws in the study, but I think the basic principle holds true.

It was a study of how roles effect personalities, how much they adapt 'who they are' to fit 'what they believe they represent'. In the study a group of psychologically screened voulenteered students were seperated into two groups. One group served as the 'Garuds' while the other were 'Prisoners', totally arbitrarily. Within two weeks the conditions had degressed to such abuses of power the study had to be canceled, which was originally slated for like two months or something.

The Palestinians are very much prisoners on their land. Now, this certainly does not excuse their behavior but it does give one a certain insight into their general psychology. I do not think the Israeli's any more 'evil', however I do understand both sides of the coin, when very commonly, people within our society only seem to have an understanding of Israel's paranoia, given the history of terrorism that's been knocking on their door for a good long time.

My argument is not that they should not be allowed, because of War Crimes. Rather that they do not warrant the historical significance to expect any special attention. I don't object to them being a civilization, but I don't see it as anymore important than including Tibet as a civilization.

It's very much the same thing. Loads of religious significance, but fairly sparse historical significance.

*just waiting for someone to give him a lecture on Tibetan history*

 

[CheScott]

You are entitled to display your ignorance about ancient and modern world history in this forum, but you are not entitled to use this forum to propagate you sick bigotry and overt racism as displayed by your comment , "The Palestinians are almost inhumanly evil".

You have been a remarkable champion for your cause, and I shudder to think what version of history you were taught at school, and I shudder even more at the hidden agenda behind the teaching curriculum. The Nazis and Communists rewrote history and indoctrinated an entire generation to keep them feeble minded and isolated from the truth. At least you have access to the Internet. Use it to find out what the truth actually is, because as of right now, you are so blinded by hatred, you would not know the truth if fell from the sky and landed on your head.

Good freakin lord. You can't win.

Argue that Israel is a glorified terrorist state, and they come out of the woodwork to tell you how great and important the Nation of Israel is.

Argue the Israeli side of the coin and someone comes in and starts calling you a racist, completely ignoring the last dozen or so pages when you were arguing about the War Crimes you feel the Israeli's have commited.

Is it really any wonder that the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is such a mess? All we have is words. They have guns and plenty of fear to go around.

 

[The Almighty dF]

Well, I think the best analogy is the Stanford Prisoner study. Now, don't get me wrong, there are some valid arguments regarding flaws in the study, but I think the basic principle holds true.

It was a study of how roles effect personalities, how much they adapt 'who they are' to fit 'what they believe they represent'. In the study a group of psychologically screened voulenteered students were seperated into two groups. One group served as the 'Garuds' while the other were 'Prisoners', totally arbitrarily. Within two weeks the conditions had degressed to such abuses of power the study had to be canceled, which was originally slated for like two months or something.

The Palestinians are very much prisoners on their land. Now, this certainly does not excuse their behavior but it does give one a certain insight into their general psychology. I do not think the Israeli's any more 'evil', however I do understand both sides of the coin, when very commonly, people within our society only seem to have an understanding of Israel's paranoia, given the history of terrorism that's been knocking on their door for a good long time.

My argument is not that they should not be allowed, because of War Crimes. Rather that they do not warrant the historical significance to expect any special attention. I don't object to them being a civilization, but I don't see it as anymore important than including Tibet as a civilization.

It's very much the same thing. Loads of religious significance, but fairly sparse historical significance.

*just waiting for someone to give him a lecture on Tibetan history*

I remember that study, it creeped me out kinda.
And, you're quite refreshing. =P That was actually a very well thought out post, and I can agree with it.

Also a Tibet thread would bring up the same stuff. Tibet, although it's less commonly known, has also done a lot of things which some would consider evil. And people would bring up China and... oh god please someone don't start -that- thread. >.> That one would become a flame war without the aide of any trolls.

I'm not exactly campaigning for Israel to be added in the game anyway, I just think it'd be kinda neat if they -did- add it. Honestly, I'd rather them add more leaders for China, Egypt, Japan, and the Vikings first.
...Though I'll at least say maybe they would deserve to be added -before- Australia and some of the other civs people have suggested (Mexico, Aboriginal, etc.)

 

[CivCorpse]

Please take the insults to private messages. i have asked a Moderator to close this thread

 

[The Almighty dF]

Please take the insults to private messages. i have asked a Moderator to close this thread

It's probably for the best, I think the subject question has been answered.

 

[Methos]

Moderator Action: Rather then hit several of you with infractions, I'll just close this thread. I suggest waiting a day or two for peoples tempers and pride to return to normal before bringing the discussion up again.