Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
And what exactly were their options? Scream "War is better than the Pact!!!" Like Yugoslavia did, and get conquered with ease?
Why didn't Hitler invade Sweden?
- Thread starter Godwynn
- Start date
I think that Germans considered them as shadow allies, because they had experiences with Soviet agression of Finns and Baltics and allies "support" for Norway. And they were right, swedish government hadnt choice than cooperate with Germans.
Verbose
Deity
Germany actually had a policy towards its small, democratic neighbours Sweden and Switzerland:
Incremental demands for concessions.
Ask for stuff, nothing big, get it, make a new small demand, nothing that in itself will jeopardise national sovereignity too badly. That way there is no risk these small neighbours will do something rash, or some kind of dramatic gesture not in Nazi Germany's interests. It would be simply idiotic to throw away national independence over demands for a coordination of the output of Swedish and German logging industries for example, i.e. humdrum administrative stuff that don't really work for a rallying call to arms... And thus, slowly, they get reeled in.
Not that outsiders would notice, but there was a whole string of crisises in Sweden during the first years of WWII, all triggered by a German demand for a concession, like the 1941 "Midsummer Crisis", or the winter of 1942 mobilisation and placement of 300 000 along the Norwegian border in response to a threatening German buildup of forces there.
Everytime the Swedish government relented, it fretted terribly over whether they had given in too easily or not, and every time they refused Germany something (yes that did occur as well) they went into an absolute funk over if they had gone to far and provoked the Germans sufficiently for a military operations.
But no, Sweden can't really be regarded as neutral during the period 1940-1942 at least, since it was completely hemmed in by Nazi Germany, dependant on German coal to keep its heavy industry running, 80% of its trade going to Germany.
The problem with moral condemnation of this state of affairs is simply that at the time there was no alternative to turn to. Had for instance the British beat Germany to Norway, then there would have been a real alternative power Sweden could navigate towards. But since that was not the case, Sweden was alone in the room with the 1200 pound Nazi gorilla. Of course, there was always the option of joining it to go fight the Soviets alongside the Finns.
But Sweden from 1943 otoh was also fine with de facto allowing Britain and the US to use its airspace for bombing missions over Germany, etc. Not really neutral then either, but somehow it retrospecitvely draws a lot less facile criticism...
Incremental demands for concessions.
Ask for stuff, nothing big, get it, make a new small demand, nothing that in itself will jeopardise national sovereignity too badly. That way there is no risk these small neighbours will do something rash, or some kind of dramatic gesture not in Nazi Germany's interests. It would be simply idiotic to throw away national independence over demands for a coordination of the output of Swedish and German logging industries for example, i.e. humdrum administrative stuff that don't really work for a rallying call to arms... And thus, slowly, they get reeled in.
Not that outsiders would notice, but there was a whole string of crisises in Sweden during the first years of WWII, all triggered by a German demand for a concession, like the 1941 "Midsummer Crisis", or the winter of 1942 mobilisation and placement of 300 000 along the Norwegian border in response to a threatening German buildup of forces there.
Everytime the Swedish government relented, it fretted terribly over whether they had given in too easily or not, and every time they refused Germany something (yes that did occur as well) they went into an absolute funk over if they had gone to far and provoked the Germans sufficiently for a military operations.
But no, Sweden can't really be regarded as neutral during the period 1940-1942 at least, since it was completely hemmed in by Nazi Germany, dependant on German coal to keep its heavy industry running, 80% of its trade going to Germany.
The problem with moral condemnation of this state of affairs is simply that at the time there was no alternative to turn to. Had for instance the British beat Germany to Norway, then there would have been a real alternative power Sweden could navigate towards. But since that was not the case, Sweden was alone in the room with the 1200 pound Nazi gorilla. Of course, there was always the option of joining it to go fight the Soviets alongside the Finns.
But Sweden from 1943 otoh was also fine with de facto allowing Britain and the US to use its airspace for bombing missions over Germany, etc. Not really neutral then either, but somehow it retrospecitvely draws a lot less facile criticism...
fugazi
King
Sweden had no choice and thus played along. I think that sums it about up, and anyone who does not understand this probably is a little detached from reality - dying for your country is one thing, but doing so when it's totally unnecessary and pointless? ..
Speaking as a citizen of Rotterdam, I can tell you that avoiding a war you'll lose anyways is the best thing you can do.
Speaking as a citizen of Rotterdam, I can tell you that avoiding a war you'll lose anyways is the best thing you can do.
I'll certainly never blame Denmark from bending over and taking it from Germany. 8000 Jews had a lot to be thankful for.
Yared
That Guy
Of course, it's not like they just sat there staring at the wall. While the war was going on, they were re-building their armies and fleets (like many other countries, Sweden had disbanded them after WW1). By the time they were strong enough to actually defend against the Germans and/or the Soviets, the war was over. At least that's what the guide at Armé Museet in Stockholm told me.
xgmx
Prince
Sweden has remained neutral since 1814 (it is against international law to declare war on them; even though that never stopped Hitler before).
Agent Cooper
Lynch's Creation
Perhaps ironically, it was a German diplomat who beforehand warned a prominent Danish politician about the imminent round up of the Danish Jews and made the rescue possible.
Nazi-Germany's interest in Norway also included heavy water for it's pursuit of nuclear weapons and the Norwegian fjords as a staging point for the German navy's surface vessels to raid the Atlantic.
Verbose
Deity
And as it happened, had Sweden not been ducking and weaving in its morally pliable way to stay out of the war, the Danish Jews would have had nowhere to run as well.
alcal
surfin'
Why should Hitler have invaded Sweden?
Regionally Sweden's occupation would have given Germans some advantages, but globally if I had been Hitler, I would have considered Sweden a waste of time and resources.
Regionally Sweden's occupation would have given Germans some advantages, but globally if I had been Hitler, I would have considered Sweden a waste of time and resources.
Yared
That Guy
Iron.
Yared
That Guy
I just wrote it as a reason to invade Sweden period. Sorry I misunderstood it.
carmen510
Deity
That's exactly the point. Sweden was already trading its valuable ores away to Germany as a neutral, so Hitler didn't need to invade. In all honesty, he could do whatever he wanted to Sweden as soon as he defeated his enemies.
The only other reason he might invade Sweden is Bofors.
Yared
That Guy
You mean the Anti Air gun?
Racsoviale
Smoke me a kipper!
Sweden also had some quite unneutral dealings with the danish resistance movement. Sweden became the place where the(mostly volunteer)danish army gathered in order to liberate Denmark(this was a ragtag army of everything that had not surrendered, basically home defence militia, pilots and regular army all grouped together).
hmm the only thing I could find on wiki is this:
Swedish authorities allowed 500 Danish soldiers in Sweden to train themselves as "police troops". By the autumn of 1944, Sweden raised this number to 4,800 and recognized the entire unit as a Danish military brigade in exile.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Denmark#Protectorate_Government_1940-43
hmm the only thing I could find on wiki is this:
Swedish authorities allowed 500 Danish soldiers in Sweden to train themselves as "police troops". By the autumn of 1944, Sweden raised this number to 4,800 and recognized the entire unit as a Danish military brigade in exile.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Denmark#Protectorate_Government_1940-43
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