Why does everyone hate CTP2??

[Herandar]

Okay, I get the general impression that everyone hates CTP2. Well, almost everyone. I bought the game days after buying my computer (since I couldn't find Civ II at the store I was in) and have played it for many hours, and it doesn't bother me. I have played only offline, so maybe that's one of the reasons I haven't encountered many bugs (except for a Wonder video frame not disappearing and enemy units animations jumping after building the GlobeSat Wonder) and the few I have encountered are very minor. Am I just more laid-back about bugs than everyone else?
The only thing I really had to adjust to was not building roads with engineers. But to tell the truth, I kinda like it this way (except when I have to build a city outside my territory just so I can link two other cities, then disband the temp city.)
To me, there is nothing truly innovative about CTP2, but it is a more refined and enhanced version of one of the greatest games ever made. (And unleashing a horde of "hunter/killers" <Moray Strikers> upon your enemies shipping is a blast.)

OK, I'm prepared to be broiled. Unleash the hounds!!

 

[Johan511]

I will open thy heart my friend and tell you why.....
You know the diplomats in CTP -- they say
"I WILL TRY"

But the Yoda says, Do or DO NOT -- there is no TRY!.....
and this is the basic foundation for our renoucement of CTP and CTP2....IT's really THAT SIMPLE...

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[Herandar]

So you don't like the game because of the grammar and vocabulary of the diplomats...

Makes sense to me...

 

[Johan511]

LOL, you need some help on the deeper meaning.
The Simplicity of what I said lays in-between irony and grammar.....
You see they tried to make CIV3 with CALL to POWER....but really they only TRIED to do it.
IT was only a repeat of what had already been done with some better graphics.

You ever see the Matrix? Remember the screen with all the numbers?
It’s about that, when you become a Civ Master you see Supply and Demand, Trade Production....CTP and CTP2 has no depth. It is actually more simple than Civ2, But try and see for yourself if you need to

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[Dell19]

After I had played a coup[le of games I started to get bored because everyting was repetitive and if you are winning early on I did not see how anyone would actually lose because you always have the best stuff.

 

[GenghisK]

Would you like to play a racing game if you have to press left to go right and up to brake, down to accelerate, etc... Yes?
Ok, I'm exagerating a bit but the main idea is that I doubt that was a human being who designed the CTP interface and ergonomy.
Now I'm pretty convinced that a penguin programmed it.

BTW, Johan, you know what? We really share the same and commons thoughts. You've just quoted my favorite sentence, from the wise Yoda. Are you telepathic?

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[Herandar]

Johan, I wish I could make the claim to be a Civmaster, unfortunately I have to many demands on my time. I do understand what you are saying now that you've ditched the Yoda-speak (Nothing against Yoda, it just sounds too much like the stoner in <u>Dude, Where's My Car</u> since I just saw that...).
I think you are right that they tried to make Civ III, who wouldn't? And as I said originally, I consider CTP2 to be a refined and enhanced Civ II. But does that truly make it a bad game?

I think not. I have never played CTP, so I cannot speak about that. How many hours did you try CTP2. I think people here automatically are slanted against the game, because it isn't Civ II and Sid Meier had nothing to do with it. (Bugs don't help...<IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/tongue.gif" border=0>) But there is trade, supply and demand, etc. in CTP2.

Oh Genghis, I agree that the interface sucks. I just use the Function keys to get to everything I need. I think I lost my point here. Tangential thoughts be damned.

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"Dude, where's my car?" -Jesse
"Where's your car, dude?" -Chester

[This message has been edited by Herandar (edited July 04, 2001).]

 

[GenghisK]

At least I'll admit it has one "good" point: earth connection mode. I mean you can choose that your map can be connected on the poles, or (the or is exclusive. XOR if you prefer) on the east and west sides of the map.
Otherwise, as you and I said, to access a city map, what a pain in the a**. On Civ2, you naturally click on the town. Or clicking on an enemy town poped up a screen showing what this city demanded (for caravan trade).

but we can't blame them because (and for your information) the Civ2 interface was protected by copyright. They even protected the "clik on the city to enter it" system, so Activision had to find something else. But good lord, why did they choose that painful system?

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[Herandar]

Probably because they got a bunch of people from various backgrounds to form a focus group, which invariably picked the wrong solution.

I don't know, what would you have done? I mean if you cannot directly click on a city, how many options do you have left?

I want to veer into a historical question now because the thought occurred to me whilst reading your post: Is there "bad blood"

between Activision and Sid Meier/Firaxis? I don't really know the history and was wondering if anyone could fill me in. Thanks.

 

[GenghisK]

Ok to answer you, actually not really. Sid was the creator of Microprose, and he left this company several years ago to create Firaxis. He always disliked too huge companies. That's why he fled MP. It had become too big. Back to Activision. There was no link with them, but the f**ing greedy boss of Activision was looking for profits using the copyrighted name of "Civilization(tm)". Then they proved that the original owner of this right was not MP but Avalon Hill (advanced civilization) so they bought them and claimed the right to use Civilization exclusively. And then started the war. Now I suggest that we condemn Activision by a huge boycott as it's stated in a Civ3 forum thread.

Anyway, I don't know further details. And I don't visit a lot this forum so don't expect a quick reply

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[G-Man]

I'll tell you why I hate this game. I worked for over 6000 years and finaly discovered the Gaia Controller. Then, because of some strange bug, whenever one of my cities built a Gaia Power Satellite, it went back to that city's building list.
But I decided that like yoga said - I will finish the game, not just try to. So I took the diplomatic path. Another wonderful bug decided I can't make an alliance with another countries. I did anything that can make them ally with me - I withdrew, I gave tehm Techs, cities, anything. And they still won't ally with me when I offer them in return a city size 50.
But being as determined as I am to finish this game, I went the Military way. I started taking over their cities, when another bug messed up with my messages system. I started getting messages saying "noyon" or "few". Without messages telling me that my people were starving and that my cities didn't produce anything, my glorious empire fell apart and I couldn't afford to keep my beautiful army.
By that time the game was almost over, so I survived the last few turns and I was about to win (I had the most points) when the last turn came and another bug decided to crash my computer whenever I was getting to the last turn.

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Are you talking to me?

 

[Dell19]

Hmmm When I played it, it wasn't that bugged...

 

[G-Man]

Well, I guess I did have a VERY bugged game. It feels like the game replaced my hard-drive with an ant colony.

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Are you talking to me?

 

[Daoloth]

One thing I really dislike about CTP2 are the other civilizations when you play. Whenever I play I always go up against the same ones, I think they're British, French, German, Irish, Scottish, and something else, then me. Always the same. Never fails. Though one cool thing about CTP2 are the governments. Technocracy forever! heh (RIP Howard Scott)

 

[blackice]

I love the game it's great as far as bugs go i have played the game since it came out. I have yet to see anything like what was described as far as bugs go if I were you I would run an antiviri program on your hd lol.

 

[Dell19]

It is possible to change the starting civs but they are defaulted to the Scots, English, German, Irsih etc...

 

[ayruabeb]

I bought the Mac version of CTP 1. It was so glitchy, I was frequently tempted to put my fist through the screen. After a while, though, I learned the tricks: aiming the cursor above and to the left of what I really wanted, etc. And to be fair, a lot of the problems I experienced was doubtless due to my processor being not quite up to the 'required' speed.
Anyway, I finally got to where I could play it, and I enjoyed the hell out of it - once played ALL night, 'till dawn, and then some. Played them right up until they crashed, which, alas, they always did (apparently whenever I got into the Rennaissance).
I saw signs of hurried development, and I had high hopes that CTP 2 would fix most of the troubles I had. And from what I hear, that's mostly true . . . but WHEN am I gonna see the Mac version of CTP 2 ?!? I mean, I can't even find someone to ASK!
If ANYONE reading this has a CLUE about where I might find an answer to this question, please, puhLEASE post it!

 

[.:KNAS:.]

why i hate ctp? well, once i had a single warrior forified in a jungle square, it was attacked by an army made up of one samurai and three warriors, need i say my warrior won the battle? need i say that my warrior was still in the green after the battle? also after i built some wonder, that wonder decided to take control of my civ, half of my cities rebelled including my capital and all the other "good" cities...... the only good thing is that u r allowed to take slaves

 

[Danno]

when i build a gaia power satelite it automatickly goes to my build cue again and i can build more.
i now have built it about fifty times in one city
is this a bug???

 

[ayruabeb]

Having gotten my old CTP running well (faster chip), and having poured over the documentation for CTP 2, I think I see why so many who liked CTP (which was a #1 seller in its genre at one time) turned away from CTP 2, desPITE the fact that it is an even better game . . .
Reason 1: The Munchkins are mad because - (1a) Most of the abusive, game winning Wonders from CTP 1 have been toned down or deleted entirely - AND (1b) the highly abusive gold multipliying city improvements have been likewise toned down.
Reason 2: While the 'Wonder Victory' ending in CTP 2 is a little less wacky than the one in its predecessor, it still reeks of eco-silliness. Those not of the Tree-huger persuasion would tend to be disappointed. Why can't someone come up with a Civ-type game with 'dailable' pollution intensity, the way they let us dial up ocean percentage, etc, when setting up a game?
Reason 3: As if to counterbalance the above, whence comes this new facination with Crime? I mean, are they trying to win back the Republicans they pissed of with their emphasis on 'ecology'? Together, I think these last two items represent a new low in selling out artistic integrity for hte sake of appealling to fashionable politics.