Why have incels gotten so much attention?

[caketastydelish]

Ok, first of all, I'm going to say they're awful people and that they're nuts.

That said: they are a fringe minority group.

There are also people who believe that the earth is flat, or that the moon landing is fake, etc. There always going to be crazy people who believe crazy things. But the 'incels' are a fringe minority of morons, like the rest of them.

So I'm trying to understand why they've been under the spotlight so much considering they're just a fringe minority group of idiots.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Well, just off the top, the other groups you mentioned aren't made up of people who advocate commission of crimes.

 

[Peuri]

They provide interesting plotlines for narratives that people concoct.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

They provide interesting plotlines for narratives that people concoct.

Well, yeah, that too. I mean, a bunch of mean spirited misogynists getting together and encouraging each other's rape fantasies certainly offers better ground for an action story than a bunch of flat earthers getting togeth...er...and... uhhhh...hmmmm ...well, doing whatever it is that flat earthers might do. Smashing globes I guess.

 

[Peuri]

Well, yeah, that too. I mean, a bunch of mean spirited misogynists getting together and encouraging each other's rape fantasies certainly offers better ground for an action story than a bunch of flat earthers getting togeth...er...and... uhhhh...hmmmm ...well, doing whatever it is that flat earthers might do. Smashing globes I guess.

Flat earthers rarely are the objects of narrative concoction, but boy are they great at concocting narratives of their own in order to justify their delusion. But what could be the reason for scientists and governments to lie that the Earth is a globe? Other conspiracy theories at least usually have a believable motive. Flat eartherism is just a flat out assault on traditional story telling.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Flat earthers rarely are the objects of narrative concoction, but boy are they great at concocting narratives of their own in order to justify their delusion. But what could be the reason for scientists and governments to lie that the Earth is a globe? Other conspiracy theories at least usually have a believable motive. Flat eartherism is just a flat out assault on traditional story telling.

Yeah, but the assault doesn't meet the deadly weapon standard since they are basically armed with a plastic spork. Seriously, there's no way to ask "why do incels get all the attention?" if the counter-example is harmless dingbats.

 

[Ryika]

Incels are in the news because that one guy who consumed a lot of incel content ran a van through a crowd and killed a dozen or so people. It's a new word, too, that hadn't yet been dragged through the mainstream media, so they knew that the general audiences were going to pay a lot of attention because that sort of stuff intrigues them.

I had a look into some of the popular online communities back when that van attack happened and tbh, most of the people I saw there are just men who go on way too much about the bad hand they've been dealt in terms of looks, but also don't try to improve themselves to a level where they're presentable and prefer to whine about being ugly on the internet. From my experience, MGTOW communities are WAY worse when it comes to misogynism, violent tendencies and all the other stuff that's been attached to the incel community.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Incels are in the news because that one guy who consumed a lot of incel content ran a van through a crowd and killed a dozen or so people. It's a new word, too, that hadn't yet been dragged through the mainstream media, so they knew that the general audiences were going to pay a lot of attention because that sort of stuff intrigues them.

I had a look into some of the popular online communities back when that van attack happened and tbh, most of the people I saw there are just men who go on way too much about the bad hand they've been dealt in terms of looks, but also don't try to improve themselves to a level where they're presentable and prefer to whine about being ugly on the internet. From my experience, MGTOW communities are WAY worse when it comes to misogynism, violent tendencies and all the other stuff that's been attached to the incel community.

Don't they sort of draw on each other?

 

[Mouthwash]

They're not nuts; they're experiencing a form of suffering that's taboo to talk about, and are reacting as suffering people usually do when they aren't so much as allowed to express their suffering. SlateStarCodex has a good writeup on the phenomenon.

 

[Ryika]

Don't they sort of draw on each other?

I don't think so. There might be that occasional incel who later becomes a MGTOW, but in general, from what I know, there isn't much overlap. MGTOW despise Incels and see them as losers who design their whole lives around wanting to be with a woman, while they see themselves as people who have gotten over women and "see them for what they truly are" - those are two very different ideologies.

To be honest, most incels probably don't need a woman to solve their problems, they need a psychiatrist (and I don't mean that as a pejorative). Many MGTOW on the other hand just need exorcists.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I don't think so. There might be that occasional incel who later becomes a MGTOW, but in general, from what I know, there isn't much overlap. MGTOW despise Incels and see them as losers who design their whole lives around wanting to be with a woman, while they see themselves as people who have gotten over women and "see them for what they truly are" - those are two very different ideologies.

To be honest, most incels probably don't need a woman to solve their problems, they need a psychiatrist (and I don't mean that as a pejorative). Many MGTOW on the other hand just need exorcists.

Fair enough. Just at a glance it seemed like the MGTOW recruitment efforts would likely target incels over other potential candidates, and I tend to look at small fringe groups from the perspective of "how might they grow." If there doesn't seem to be any path for growth an insignificant fringe group is a lot less of a concern. Despising incels who "fail to understand and step up to join us" wouldn't be an unexpected result either.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Incel, MGTOW... Looking Wikipedia... Done.

The incel thingy looks like something coming from Japan. Most men are like that there, until they get married and become total henpecked husbands.

The MGTOW thingy looks like something coming from the Fight Club.

 

[brennan]

It's a tiny fringe, but it suits the PC press to present them as typical of critics of postmodern/feminist/identity leftism. The more they can convince people that anyone who disagrees with them, right or left, is a fascist, misogynist, neo-nazi the better, as far as they are concerned.

 

[Cutlass]

Why they get attention probably mostly amounts to squeeky wheels getting the grease. They get attention because they're making a lot of noise.

 

[brennan]

Really? Name an incel i'd have heard of in the media.

 

[Cutlass]

Really? Name an incel i'd have heard of in the media.

You've heard of the group. They aren't media personalities.

 

[Traitorfish]

A number of self-identified Incels, and individuals who might plausibly be described as "Incel fellow-travellers", have carried out publicly violent crimes. Self-identified MRAs, Red Pillers or MGTOWers have not. There is no particular reason for major news outlets to zoom in on weirdo internet subcultures unless one of them does something headline worthy, and this results in disproportionate publicity.

I don't think it's really any more complex than that.

 

[brennan]

You can't name any of them and they aren't media personalities, but they are making a lot of noise...? I only heard of them about six months ago when someone at work mentioned 'incels'. Like MRAs, they seem only to be publicised in the mainstream by their opponents.

 

[MaryKB]

I agree you're probably hearing about them more because of violent crimes, I feel they really sort of came more into the spotlight after that man in Toronto attacked women with his van, I mean an event like that is very newsworthy and you're going to get information on his background and motives, which brings to light groups he's connected with.

I've read before how incels are sort of a hijacked group, I heard they started out as a niche online dating forum for both men and women who've had difficulty with relationships, but from what I understand it got sort of taken over by men who are angry. I feel incels, men's rights activists, men going their own way, and such are all similar at their core because they all blame women for their problems, and lament how women's progress and liberation has caused harm to traditional male dominance and privilege, and honestly all those extremists frighten me. My feeling is incels would love to see women enslaved (I've heard things like some Canadian writer whose name I forget believes women should be forced into monogamous relationships), and others probably wouldn't agree with them, like from what I understand mgtow have their feelings because they believe women are evil and have too many rights and aren't worth relationships because we can't be controlled.

But anyways I'm sorry, I do feel you'd hear more about those other groups if members started carrying out violence, or have celebrity spokesmen or something. I mean, there are many sects and cults you don't hear much about because they just don't do anything newsworthy (subjugation of women is a very common theme I believe you'll find though.)

 

[Synobun]

Oh boy, another thread about incels. The last one went so well.

The van attack in Toronto is not the first incel-related public mass killing. Elliott Rodger is the first. He released an incel manifesto that is still lauded by incels to this day. They get attention because they are a tightly knit group based on hating everyone in a manner that is receptive to violent inclinations winning out. Not everyone who is an incel will be a killer, but the philosophy is built so that the two are compatible. Taking revenge out on the world is not only understandable, but a fantasy held by the rest.

Really, this entire thread is going to be a mess. There'll be people who have never read a single thing about incels making definitive claims about them and there'll be people trying to sympathize with them as though they're just average dudes a little down on their luck.

Can we just skip this? Read this thread if you want to simulate an incel discussion on CFC: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/toronto-van-attack.631762/