Why is Mongolia in and not Korea

[tifa9292]

I thought the name is spelled Roh Moo-hyun (노무&#54788?




I too thought that the OP shouldn't have started this thread. Certainly the Mongols had a bigger influence than Korea. And I'm Korean as well. But it doesn't matter, because I don't have Civ 5 and I don't plan on buying it ATM. Korea is already represented in Civ 4 (since Warlords) so I'm content on playing the Koreans in Civ 4 and kicking a**.



Taejo (Yi Seong-gye/이성&#44228 was the first king of the Joseon Dynasty, right? I don't know -- I would have picked Sejong Daewang (세종대&#50773 as the first leader. OT, but isn't South Korea going to move it's capital in 10-20 years to a newly created city called Sejong City?


69

we're not moving the capital to sejong
where did you haer that

yi seoung-gye is the first king of the joseon dystnasty, which is the longest dynasty (1300-1900) after gojoseon (2333BC - 100). yi seoung-gye also saved us from the chinese, japanese and the northern barbarains from attacking.

 

[usi]

You know, I can't bare pointing out that many Korean people here are a bit too "nationalistic."
Most of the civs in Civ 4 & 5, not just Korea, are poorly represented.

For example:

USA - The most productive country in the world with the greatest number of genuises and the strongest army and economy. In Civ 5, they are not strong in anything except scouting and buying some tiles of land.
Japan - One of the most scientifically, industrially, and economically advanced country, which has also made a great amounf of cultural influence over the world. In Civ, it's a mere warmonger.
China - This country has almost always been on the top-tier in science, land area, production, culture and so forth throughout the history. In Civ 4, it was just a protective and unsuccessful wonder builder.

When they say, "Korean influence is underrated," they should seriously think about who else isn't underrated.

 

[Vordeo]

USA - The most productive country in the world with the greatest number of genuises and the strongest army and economy. In Civ 5, they are not strong in anything except scouting and buying some tiles of land.

Errr... economy? Not at the moment...

And given all the complaints about your educational system (and China and India's insane populations), I'd doubt the greatest number of geniuses bit.

Japan - One of the most scientifically, industrially, and economically advanced country, which also makes a great amounf of cultural influence over the world. In Civ, it's a mere warmonger.

To be fair, they're representing the civs across their entire recorded histories, and alot of Japan's history is warfare.

They've really become a world-class economic power only this century, AFAIK.

we're not moving the capital to sejong
where did you haer that

Huh, was intrigued by that and wiki'd it. Apparently it was proposed, but didn't push through.

Would've thought the main reason would be to move the capital somewhere that wouldn't be easily targeted by the North in case of a civil war, but it's to relieve overcrowding, apparently. Interesting nonetheless.

 

[tifa9292]

we will take back north korea and unite with seoul as capital hopefully by 2020

 

[Thormodr]

The main reason for the rising resentment is the news media and how events spread over the internet.
Just decades ago, if some drunk US soldiers had a good time outside their base, raped some schoolgirls or crushed other civilians to death with their jeeps, the news (and the fact the the soldiers in question were immune to korean prosecution) was quickly hushed up.
Nowadays you can rage on about US rapists for AGES and thus resentment grows.
The reports of how american rape/murder/torture culture spreads in iraq and afghanistan doesn't help improve their image in the eyes of enraged koreans either.

Blame it on the internets!

The crushing of the schoolgirls was by a big armoured vehicle and was a tragic accident. I believe that was in 2002. They were not drunk and it was a tragic accident and nothing more than that. Stop making up crap.

I don't recall anything about civilians being crushed to death by jeeps. If you have a link, please provide it.

Speaking of traffic accidents, I wonder which country had the most traffic fatalities per 100,000 people in the industrialized world in 2001? (The general time period of the school children being crushed to death by the armoured vehicle) It's on page 12. You can also see where where Korea ranks for child death per 100,000 in the industrialized world on page 6. Needless to say, it's not very safe being a school child over in South Korea. I think recently they finally established speed zones in school areas. I suppose that's a step in the right direction.

http://www.unicef-irc.org/publications/pdf/repcard2e.pdf

Perhaps when South Koreans are enraged about American war crimes they should look at their own that they committed during the Vietnam War.

The turning point in Korean consciousness about Vietnam, Han says, occurred in September 1999, and involved a different war. The Associated Press published an investigative story about the No Gun Ri massacre, in which American soldiers fired machine guns at Korean refugees taking shelter under a bridge during the Korean War. More than 100 civilians were reportedly killed.

"What happened in No Gun Ri and what happened in Vietnam were the same thing," Han says. "It was the massacre of civilians by soldiers. In act one we were the victims, and in act two we were the victimizers.

"We Koreans had an image of ourselves as peace-loving people, but for the first time that image was shattered."

http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=e17768f0425c1625fbfdc2a2d6f5726c

Korean soldiers participated in the Vietnam war from 1963 to 1973. They killed approximately 41,400 of the enemy. However, an unknown number of ordinary Vietnamese people tragically lost their lives as well. The Ministry of Culture and Communication of Vietnam has publicly estimated that the number of innocent victims killed in the provinces like QUANG NGAI, QUANG NAM, and BINH DINH was approximately 5,000 people. It was reported that most Vietnamese people have not forgotten the shock of the
massacres yet and the mental anguish of the survivors have had serious and had lasting effects.

http://www.ahrchk.net/ua/mainfile.php/2000/366

 

[DirtyFinger]

USA - The most productive country in the world with the greatest number of genuises and the strongest army and economy.

And the greatest pricks since the roman empire.
Moderator Action: Nation bashing is considered trolling here and gets infracted.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

And I agree their special ability doesn't really fit to modern america.

USA special ability: Military Industrial Complex - +50% total happiness, +25% production when at war. +100% war weariness (if there is any).

 

[Thormodr]

I thought the name is spelled Roh Moo-hyun (노무&#54788?




I too thought that the OP shouldn't have started this thread. Certainly the Mongols had a bigger influence than Korea. And I'm Korean as well. But it doesn't matter, because I don't have Civ 5 and I don't plan on buying it ATM. Korea is already represented in Civ 4 (since Warlords) so I'm content on playing the Koreans in Civ 4 and kicking a**.



Taejo (Yi Seong-gye/이성&#44228 was the first king of the Joseon Dynasty, right? I don't know -- I would have picked Sejong Daewang (세종대&#50773 as the first leader. OT, but isn't South Korea going to move it's capital in 10-20 years to a newly created city called Sejong City?


69

President Noh. My mistake. I've been out of the country for a few years.
Noh Moo Hyun. Possibly the worst South Korean president anyway.

 

[usi]

About the US

Errr... economy? Not at the moment...
And given all the complaints about your educational system (and China and India's insane populations), I'd doubt the greatest number of geniuses bit.

Then, who else do you think have the strongest economy now? Yeah, the US went down, but so did others.
Also, scientifically, looking at the number of Nobel Prize winners, US > [whatever other country you put].


About Japan

To be fair, they're representing the civs across their entire recorded histories, and alot of Japan's history is warfare.
They've really become a world-class economic power only this century, AFAIK.

That argument makes most European civs more of warmongers than Japan.
Also, it is wrong that Japan is a "new" country.
For example, in 1700 AD, when European countries were strong, the population of Edo (Tokyo) > population of London.

 

[eumyang]

we're not moving the capital to sejong
where did you haer that

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sejong_Special_Autonomous_City

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2010/02/137_59627.html


69

 

[Thormodr]

we will take back north korea and unite with seoul as capital hopefully by 2020

Considering that reunification costs would run as high as 2-5 trillion dollars (which would bankrupt South Korea easily) I believe a large majority of South Koreans are not in favour of such a proposition truthfully. (At least not in their lifetimes due to the heavy tax burden. )

Reunification is highly desirable and appealing to both Koreas, yet the jaw-dropping cost of reunifying the two countries has made the ROK and the majority of its citizens hesitate. A recent poll in 2009 showed that more than 80% of South Koreans wanted reunification, but less than 19% wanted a reunification within their generation in fear of economic consequences. Moreover, the culture of both side’s Koreans has drifted far apart since 1948 leading to fears that the North Koreans will not be able to integrate into a 21st century, Korean society which would create widespread social problems.

http://inewp.com/?p=4671

 

[Vordeo]

we will take back north korea and unite with seoul as capital hopefully by 2020

Good luck with that, but that sounds like a very optimistic timeline.

Also, the process of actually integrating both countries will be a massive headache, financially and logistically.

About the US


Then, who else do you think have the strongest economy now? Yeah, the US went down, but so did others.

China, I'd imagine. Or really, anyone without the massive deficit/debts.

Also, scientifically, looking at the number of Nobel Prize winners, US > [whatever other country you put].

True, but Nobel prize winner =/= genius. Depends on your definition, I suppose.

About Japan


That argument also makes most European civs more of warmongers than Japan.

True, though given the want for game balance and variety you can understand why not everyone is a war-oriented civ.

Also, it is wrong that Japan is a "new" country.

I never said it was, but it's economic significance on a global scale is a relatively recent phenomenon.

For example, in 1700 AD, when European countries were strong, the population of Edo (Tokyo) > population of London.

Yes, but it wasn't exactly a global cultural or economic power at the time.

Basically in global popular culture they're more well known more for their warring aspects (history-wise), so the developers went with that.

Also, Bushido as a UA just sounds badass.

 

[Wuzetian]

we will take back north korea and unite with seoul as capital hopefully by 2020

This is seriously amusing.
No offense but I really can't helping laughing.

 

[usi]

About the US

China, I'd imagine. Or really, anyone without the massive deficit/debts.

China has serious problems with unemployment and corruption.
If a Chinese is born in a dirty officer's family, s/he would enjoy the stable economy.
But most Chinese people are in stably poor economy.

And stable =/= strong, e.g., some African tribes might not have any debts, but their economy sucks.
Rome had serious problem with economic stability too, but Roman economy was super strong.

True, but Nobel prize winner =/= genius. Depends on your definition, I suppose.

Not all geniuses get the prize, but those who got the prize must be geniuses IMO.
And given the huge differences in the numbers of prizes won, the US should be on the top.


About Japan

True, though given the want for game balance and variety you can understand why not everyone is a war-oriented civ.

Yeah, I understand that.
But my point was that Japan being a mere warmonger is one of some examples of imperfect representation.
And what I wanted to say was that it is funny to see some people complaining that Korea was not represented well, while in fact most civs were ill-represented.

I never said it was, but it's economic significance on a global scale is a relatively recent phenomenon.

I meant, "new to the group of important civs."

Yes, but it wasn't exactly a global cultural or economic power at the time.
Basically in global popular culture they're more well known more for their warring aspects (history-wise), so the developers went with that.

Well, from the Western perspective, yes, they weren't globally important at that time.
But the problem is that most non-European countries were not interested in global trades and invasions.

 

[Morningcalm]

You know, I can't bare pointing out that many Korean people here are a bit too "nationalistic."
Most of the civs in Civ 4 & 5, not just Korea, are poorly represented.

For example:

USA - The most productive country in the world with the greatest number of genuises and the strongest army and economy. In Civ 5, they are not strong in anything except scouting and buying some tiles of land.
Japan - One of the most scientifically, industrially, and economically advanced country, which has also made a great amounf of cultural influence over the world. In Civ, it's a mere warmonger.
China - This country has almost always been on the top-tier in science, land area, production, culture and so forth throughout the history. In Civ 4, it was just a protective and unsuccessful wonder builder.

When they say, "Korean influence is underrated," they should seriously think about who else isn't underrated.

I think the Koreans who post on foreign forums sometimes feel a need to prove their country's influence. I sometimes feel that need too. Foreigners don't really know much about Korea, and when they make generalizations like "no one knows ANYTHING about Korea" I feel the need to point out what they do know about, and also what they *could* know about if they looked into it a bit more. But yes, nationalism + Korea kind of go together. Korea seems to have a bit of an inferiority complex, which is something about my country that I do not feel proud of. Koreans should be proud, but Koreans who *make up* blatant lies about their country's history are just ick.

I think other civs may well be underrated, but Korea has always been a weak civ in Civ, to be frank. In their earliest appearance in Civ they were Greeks, but worse than them, with a cannon replacement. In their later appearance they were protective (sucky trait) and commercial (YAY!) and had the hwacha (nice in Warlords, sucky in BtS).

And again, other countries may be underrated just like Korea, but that doesn't discredit people pointing out that Korea is underrated too (though I am not saying they are, frankly I feel honored they've been in Civ at all, and Civilopedia's entry about Seoul is very high praise o_o).

So I mean....Korean nationalists posting on Civ forums are bad, but hey, we have Iranian nationalists posting about Darius not speaking in Farsi too. And Thai people talking about the Siam leader's incorrect hand gestures and statues. Not all of this is bad, though some nationalists may take it a bit far.

In the very least, one good thing that came about from the OP's weird statements--we have had an interesting historical discussion, with Mongols included! KHAAAN.

 

[Wuzetian]

Considering that reunification costs would run as high as 2-5 trillion dollars (which would bankrupt South Korea easily) I believe a large majority of South Koreans are not in favour of such a proposition truthfully. (At least not in their lifetimes due to the heavy tax burden. )



http://inewp.com/?p=4671

where did you get the 2-5 trillion dollar unification fee number?

 

[tifa9292]

This is seriously amusing.
No offense but I really can't helping laughing.

laugh all you want, if seoul is not capitol then sejong, but there not funny about seoul as capitol

seoul was capitol of joseon

 

[Humakty]

Real truth is tons of civs were left out,but we only have one protestation thread !

And a gorgeous title for this thread : Why is Mongolia in and not Korea

Interesting choice in bold, don't you think ? How many gamers in Mongolia ? Hum, I 'respect' OP cleverness.....

 

[Wuzetian]

China has serious problems with unemployment and corruption.
If a Chinese is born in a dirty officer's family, s/he would enjoy the stable economy.
But most Chinese people are in stably poor economy.

I wish I could say it otherwise, but what you said is true.
IMO China would run into quite some deep trouble in the near future and it has quite long a journey ahead to become the strongest economy.

 

[tifa9292]

I wish I could say it otherwise, but what you said is true.
IMO China would run into quite some deep trouble in the near future and it has quite long a journey ahead to become the strongest economy.

china still has low gdp/capta

fact: korea tho has been predicted by some people to have highest gdp/capta in world and best country by 2050

 

[Wuzetian]

china still has low gdp/capta

fact: korea tho has been predicted by some people to have highest gdp/capta in world and best country by 2050

Never mind that, I've read your post. Korea had already been the best country some 5000 years ago.