Baleur
Prince
The Spanish civ could just use the incredibly underused Greece civstyle (ingame, the red roof white buildings), problem fixed. lol.
Why is Mongolia in and not Korea
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The Spanish civ could just use the incredibly underused Greece civstyle (ingame, the red roof white buildings), problem fixed. lol.
usi
Shogun
Don't evade from the fact that you provided no source.
No need to shout. Just show me the evidence.
Don't throw the burden of proof to me. You need to prove your points, not me.
So, are you saying that countries that did not invade others are weak?
Genghis Khan might agree with you, but not me.
Read the evidence before shouting.
Check out the size of Seoul at other times, and you'll find that it had always been small.
And check further about various cities in the world. You'll find that when a country is strong, its cities grow.
If that's the case Kyongju was probably bigger than Luoyang and Chang'an.
Moreover, the former book you brought was written by Korean, and the second seems to be more of a advocative than historical book by looking at the name, "Made in Korea: Chung Ju Yung and the rise of Hyundai."
Because you didn't say the page number, I couldn't find where in the second book your ideas are supported. I searched by "Kyongju," and only got information about Hyundai Hotel.
Well, I only asked for evidence, and why are you so angry and made ad-hominem attacks to me?
I'm just wondering why.
Also, didn't you notice that the Wikipedia article I brought up has sources to support the numbers?
Licinia Eudoxia
Empress
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I don't really think anyone is spamming. And people are still talking about the criteria for including a civilization, and whether or not Korea meets those various criteria, so I think it's quite fine. If you're bored, I could pick out a few threads you should look at instead!
I don't think they've ever listed the criteria for inclusion, have they? Even if they did, there's probably a lot of judgment involved, and of course gameplay diversity issues are important.
I majored in East Asian history in college, btw, but it was a long time ago. There was a substantial bit about Korea, but most of it was focused on China and Japan. Not that Korea isn't interesting, but I thought the reasons were pretty obvious, at least at the time.
I majored in East Asian history in college, btw, but it was a long time ago. There was a substantial bit about Korea, but most of it was focused on China and Japan. Not that Korea isn't interesting, but I thought the reasons were pretty obvious, at least at the time.
Licinia Eudoxia
Empress
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No, they haven't, and there's lots of different criteria obviously, and there's a lot of judgment involved. That said, we can discuss what we think the criteria is, or what it appears to be from observing the civilizations they did pick.
usi
Shogun
Back to topic...
IMO, different kinds of civs, not just cultural ones, should be included because it will be more fun to have different civs heading to different directions.
And Mongolia is a very important civ at least in one category - warmonger.
On the other hand, while Korea has had impressive culture, there are many other candidates with strong cultural influences.
So, Mongolia > Korea.
It's like this.
Say John is good at math and Mary is good at history.
If there are many others better at math than John, John won't go Harvard.
If there are only few others better at history than Mary, Mary may go Harverd.
It doesn't mean Mary is smarter than John, and John shouldn't hate Mary for that.
IMO, different kinds of civs, not just cultural ones, should be included because it will be more fun to have different civs heading to different directions.
And Mongolia is a very important civ at least in one category - warmonger.
On the other hand, while Korea has had impressive culture, there are many other candidates with strong cultural influences.
So, Mongolia > Korea.
It's like this.
Say John is good at math and Mary is good at history.
If there are many others better at math than John, John won't go Harvard.
If there are only few others better at history than Mary, Mary may go Harverd.
It doesn't mean Mary is smarter than John, and John shouldn't hate Mary for that.
awesome
Meme Lord
koreans had an empire larger than asia and founded every major ancient civilization and invented hot cocoa.
They also invented monoliths and turned Jupiter into a star so they could start a colony on Europa. Also, they granted Man the secret of Fire.
That is the correct answer!
I suppose you know about Korea's 10,000 years of history too.
There needs to be less Korea in the game and not more!
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I do love me some spicy cabbage. Civ is about history. Doesn't matter much about today. Mongols had one of the great empires ever. Still, I'd like to see the Koreans back in there. I'm sure they will be.
hopefuly 13 pages of everyone supporting korea is enough to convice sid to put korea in
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I read a book by Turtledove called Ruled Brittania and for whatever reason, I've been itching to play as Spain again.
This reference made several nerds like me smiled.
Quite frankly, China was the imperial power of East Asia up until the 19th century.
Wow, really? The past 13 pages have been "everyone supporting korea"?
I think your definition of "support" is a bit different from mine...
Korea does have 10,000 years of history and are responsible for the foundation of most of the world's major civilizations. They also had the largest empire in human history.
So, I can see his/her point. My only contention is that Korea is over represented already since we have China, Japan, India, Egypt, Aztecs etc already in the game.
There is solid historical evidence to support this.
i think almost everyone agred that adding in korea wouldd be good
MisterBarca
Prince
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Check out the size of Seoul at other times, and you'll find that it had always been small.
And check further about various cities in the world. You'll find that when a country is strong, its cities grow....
If that's the case Kyongju was probably bigger than Luoyang and Chang'an.
Moreover, the former book you brought was written by Korean, and the second seems to be more of a advocative than historical book by looking at the name, "Made in Korea: Chung Ju Yung and the rise of Hyundai." ..
Well, I only asked for evidence, and why are you so angry and made ad-hominem attacks to me?
I'm just wondering why.
Ok, I apologize for the tone of my original post--which I already did in my original edit to that post. I was in a bad mood, as well as late to an appointment, and the tone of your original post caught me in a wrong way. In particular, it sounded to me at the time you were someone with really no background on the topic whose intent was to troll the topic even further.
Unfortunately, while your more considered reply proves that you weren't being a troll, it still betrays your lack of knowledge on the topic. You keep repeating that Seoul "had always been small," but that is irrelevant, because Seoul was not the capital of Korea nor even among its largest cities until well after the establishment of the Choseon dynasty in the late 14th century. Instead, during much of Korea's ancient history, Kyongju was overwhelmingly the largest city on the peninsula. I am not surprised that Wikipedia neglects to mention Kyongju, given that 1) the site is generally not thorough; and 2) Kyongju went into a rapid decline after the emergence of Koryo dynasty and has indeed been an insignificant city for most of the last millennium.
Nonetheless, Kyongju is generally considered to have been one of the top three or five largest cities in the world from around 500 AD to around 900 AD. So yes, it was larger than both Luoyang and Chang'an at its pinnacle. And since you do not trust Korean sources and imply that I resorted to it because I couldn't find a non-Korean source buttressing the claim (when I just picked the first two entries I saw when I did a Google Books search), here is a Western source, the Encyclopedia of Geography:
http://books.google.com/books?id=om...esnum=1&ved=0CCsQ6AEwADgU#v=onepage&q&f=false
It says Kyongju "housed over 1 million people (over 5 times its present population), making it the fourth largest city in the world" around the 8th century.
(I also do not understand how you couldn't find the information on the 2nd link in the original post; maybe you simply did not bother to read?)
I hope that is sufficient. If you continue to insist on your ignorance, then I will know you are indeed trolling. I generally lose interest with anonymous Wikipedia "experts" because such engagements are almost always unproductive; and I have no dog in this fight anyways, since I am highly critical of Korean nationalism, and it was in no way my intent to argue that Korea deserved to be included in this game more so than Mongolia--or Japan.
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