Why is the world hostile to Christians?

[sanabas]

Sanabas, stop right there. I havent always been a born again christian you know. I have plenty of my own "input" that helps form my own moral code as well. However, when I find that my moral code and the moral code of the bible at odds, it is usually my moral code that is wrong.

Oops, missed this reply before. Please consider my statement to read 'all other christians, not the thinking ones like you' then. You're different, you've had other inputs, thought about things, and decided the bible is the best source, but that's hardly the general rule about those that follow the bible is it?

Also, how do you decide if your moral code or the bible's is the correct one when they're in conflict? Is it possible for the bible to have it wrong?

I think, that without a higher power, that people in general are mean and petty and selfish and ultimately fleshly/sinful. As Curt would say, they are "sheeple" and will wander and do whatever they feel like according to their own needs and purposes - without a higher power. With a higher power, we catch a glimpse of what the human spirit is capable of and the heights that it can attain. Which, in a lot of ways, makes up for all the other crap. However, I feel that people who say they base their morals on their self, typically only look out for #1 - themselves.

I find the sheep mentality is far, far worse with a higher power or some other external source for moral decisions. Not simply accepting what the external source says is one of the prerequisites for not being a sheep. So it's hard to point the finger at those that don't simply accept it and call them sheep. Do you think that the OT posters who say they have thought about things and worked out a moral code for themselves are all inherently selfish and only looking out for #1?

 

[Kyriakos]

@MobBoss: Basing your views on a 'higher power' (which is just some other part of your consciousness, afterall, which has just been seperated in some degree from the rest, thus creating the impression that it is not you) doesnt at all mean that you arent selfish. It means that you are having a way of claiming to yourself that you arent. Besides, being selfish is needed to a degree, so as to have a sense of self (the Ego, afterall, is a core of self-awareness, there are not many things more selfish than that, and it is entirely needed for existence). Many religious people have in reality very cruel/hostile tendancies, and regulate them with the help of their 'god sense/image'.

 

[bigfatron]

I think, that without a higher power, that people in general are mean and petty and selfish and ultimately fleshly/sinful. As Curt would say, they are "sheeple" and will wander and do whatever they feel like according to their own needs and purposes - without a higher power. With a higher power, we catch a glimpse of what the human spirit is capable of and the heights that it can attain. Which, in a lot of ways, makes up for all the other crap. However, I feel that people who say they base their morals on their self, typically only look out for #1 - themselves.

And yet the correlation between religious conservativism, support for social curtailment and acceptance of relative poverty is a strong one in all cultures.....

Thus, common experience suggests you are wrong.

 

[El_Machinae]

One additional problem is that faithful people are less likely to interpret a voice in their head or a strong intuition as just a quirk of brain chemistry, and more likely to give it a supernatural source.

As well, the Bible can be interpreted many ways, often in contradictory ways ... and sometimes people will interpret the Bible according to a narrow view, and use that interpretation to justify hurting, harming, or hindering people (actual people).

Take the homosexuality debate. Verses were quoted to me to show that God did not like homosexual behaviour. I expanded the text (looked at more verses in the same chapter) to show that God merely despised non-Christians being homosexuals. However, I was deemed to be 'wrong' and maybe even deceptive (and thus, evil). My point was that they should work more on conversion, so that the union can be blessed, instead of condeming the union.

Anyway, the problem with the Bible is that it can be used to justify immoral behaviour, when the person was actually attempting to be moral. Often, people let themselves be immmoral (and justify it, or just recognize it), but it's when moral people are lead to immorality (despite their best efforts) that we run into a problem.

 

[Kyriakos]

One additional problem is that faithful people are less likely to interpret a voice in their head or a strong intuition as just a quirk of brain chemistry, and more likely to give it a supernatural source.

I agree with your point, however you expressed it in an incorrect way:
No one would just interpret a voice in the head as a 'quirk of brain chemistry'. True, if viewed as a material phenomenon, it is that, but then again your mental state while writing the above sentence is also seen as a quirk in brain chemistry, since from the brain's point of view it doesnt matter if you write a sentence you find logical, or hear voices, or hear your dog speaking. Brain chemistry is the material manifestation of the same phenomenon as the individual's awareness of his specific thought/emotions of a given moment, in other words his immediate consciousness, and its substrata (which is a lot bigger).

 

[El_Machinae]

Okay, but I really meant

"A Christian is less likely to seek medical help if he starts feeling unreasonable intuitions or hearing voices"

Of course, MOST people are unlikely to seek help with the intuition problem (since they're so obviously CORRECT, don't you know ... sigh), but the voices thing ...

 

[MobBoss]

Oops, missed this reply before. Please consider my statement to read 'all other christians, not the thinking ones like you' then. You're different, you've had other inputs, thought about things, and decided the bible is the best source, but that's hardly the general rule about those that follow the bible is it?

Debatable. I tend to see a trend toward more people taking their own personal interest in the bible for their own education as opposed to being raised in a close-minded environment. But thats me on the inside looking out. From your viewpoint it may be different.

Also, how do you decide if your moral code or the bible's is the correct one when they're in conflict? Is it possible for the bible to have it wrong?

I find nothing incorrect with Jesus's moral code and thats the standard I try to set my own by.

Do you think that the OT posters who say they have thought about things and worked out a moral code for themselves are all inherently selfish and only looking out for #1?

Trying not to generalize here. I think it is human nature to do exactly that. Are there individuals that dont? Sure, but I think the overall trend would certainly be as you say it here.

 

[El_Machinae]

Jesus's moral code and thats the standard I try to set my own by.

That's what I meant about reading more into 'it' than just Jesus's commandments. There's really not much more to Christianity than that.

And it's when people try to read MORE than just the simple parts that we run into trouble.

 

[MobBoss]

That's what I meant about reading more into 'it' than just Jesus's commandments. There's really not much more to Christianity than that.

And it's when people try to read MORE than just the simple parts that we run into trouble.

Well, there is more. For example, Jesus was never married and yet the bible has quite a bit of very good wisdom concerning husband/wife relationships. It really is a roadmap for a person to conduct their life in a way to be beneficial to others, themselves and also be pleasing to God.

Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Birdjaguar]

This was in today's paper:

 

[MobBoss]

This was in today's paper:

Hmmm. Time to burn an embassy or two methinks.

 

[Birdjaguar]

My thinking exactly. Dibbs on western Samoa!

 

[MobBoss]

My thinking exactly. Dibbs on western Samoa!

Uh...you can have that one. Samoans are friggin big.

I choose France. For the obvious reasons.

 

[CaptainF]

Uh...you can have that one. Samoans are friggin big.

I choose France. For the obvious reasons.

I choose it because the Eiffel Tower is so totally a middle finger to freedomland incorporated.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I thought about choosing France and the fact that I could meet Marla, but a trip to Polynesia seemed like more fun and I've never been there.

 

[MobBoss]

I thought about choosing France and the fact that I could meet Marla, but a trip to Polynesia seemed like more fun and I've never been there.

Uhm...you burn foreign embassys here...at home...

You wont find a Samoan embassy in Samoa.....or a French embassy in France.

You nerd.

 

[GenMarshall]

Lets find the cartoonist of that comic and place a bounty on his head

 

[Birdjaguar]

Uhm...you burn foreign embassys here...at home...

You wont find a Samoan embassy in Samoa.....or a French embassy in France.

You nerd.

But I want a trip to Samoa

 

[Birdjaguar]

Lets find the cartoonist of that comic and place a bounty on his head

http://www.bizarro.com/

 

[SuperBeaverInc.]

But I want a trip to Samoa

Then go to Samoa and burn someone else's embassy