why is tundra so useless?

[darkace77450]

In Civ5, Trading Posts made desert and tundra tiles - tiles that were often too unproductive to be worked - somewhat palatable. Since Civ6 doesn't have Trading Posts, and since Farms can't be built on tundra tiles, these tiles are virtually worthless (resources and religious beliefs notwithstanding). At least desert tiles can be enhanced with Petra and rain forest tiles can be boosted via Chichen Itza. Unfortunately, there is no similar wonder that boosts tundra.

So my question to you guys is this: what do you do when you wind up with a tundra start? Do you ride it out and make the most of it? Or do you migrate elsewhere (or restart and hope for a better starting position)?

 

[Kizo]

Put as many of your districts as possible on tundra tiles. Since you lose tile yields from districts anyway, they're perfect for tundra and flat desert.

As for whether to migrate, I'll keep a start that's about half tundra, maybe a little more than half. If it's entirely tundra, I'll migrate a little.

 

[mnf]

I will move out of a tundra start when there's so little good non-tundra tiles that I'll be forced to work tundra before pop 7. And when I move more then 3 turns yet haven't found anything I restart.

In fact I think I've become spoilt with great tiles like rainforest hill furs or rainforest hill dyes that I'm always thinking of restarting when I don't see one of those grand rainforest resource tiles. Those tiles are making all starts feel dull...

 

[unpossible251]

Unless you are Russia. Yeah.

 

[Lucius_]

I almost always restart. The biggest issue I have with tundra starts that I've seen, is it becomes difficult to get a good farming area with everything adjacent. Beyond that, tundra start also means a vast amount of land to the north or south is nearly useless, making for constant barb incursions from the snowy pole area, as well as greatly limiting the settling area. If it's an islands map, then a large portion of your starting island will be useless.

 

[CoolLizy]

Later in the game you can plant forests. Plant forests on those tundra tiles, and then build logging camps over them.

 

[mnf]

I would actually still move/restart if I'm Russia. You get to make tundra 1f1p1f which is still pretty useless. You still can't farm them. The only thing you can do is wait until Conservation (modern era) and plant trees, then lumbermill them for +3 or +4 (on rivers), basically just get +1 faith over normal plains. Before that, they might as well have been desert because you still won't work them if you had any choice.

So even as Russia, tundra as a starting position is all harm and no benefits. You want to be near tundra but not on tundra as Russia, so that you can build those new cities in tundra for late game lumbermill cities.

As a starting position, tundra is just as bad for Russia as it is for any civ.

 

[BF Bullpup]

Put as many of your districts as possible on tundra tiles. Since you lose tile yields from districts anyway, they're perfect for tundra and flat desert.

Good tip - I do that too with tundra and desert tiles.

Later in the game you can plant forests. Plant forests on those tundra tiles, and then build logging camps over them.

Great idea. My current game had me conquering a capital that unfortunately is next to a bunch of tundra tiles. Now I know how to make that city more productive. Thanks.

 

[AmtrakQuebec]

Tundra is actually really good in the late game for Neighbourhoods.

 

[Daishomei]

In Civ5, Trading Posts made desert and tundra tiles - tiles that were often too unproductive to be worked - somewhat palatable. Since Civ6 doesn't have Trading Posts, and since Farms can't be built on tundra tiles, these tiles are virtually worthless (resources and religious beliefs notwithstanding). At least desert tiles can be enhanced with Petra and rain forest tiles can be boosted via Chichen Itza. Unfortunately, there is no similar wonder that boosts tundra.

So my question to you guys is this: what do you do when you wind up with a tundra start? Do you ride it out and make the most of it? Or do you migrate elsewhere (or restart and hope for a better starting position)?

This is why OP....Civilization hates beets.. As Weird Al would say just eat it!

 

[mnf]

Tundra is actually really good in the late game for Neighbourhoods.

I just want to add, in case a newbie gets confused: they are only "great for neighborhoods" because we'd prefer to work all the other types of tiles, and tundra is worthless until Conservation, so we don't feel bad building three Neighborhoods on Average appeal tundra versus building one on a Breathtaking forested grassland hill cliff on a river next to a wonder.

Neighborhoods need high appeal, and tundra do not add to appeal, so while Neighborhoods is a great use for tundra, we don't go out of our way to get tundra just for building Neighborhoods. We end up building neighborhoods on tundra not because they are tundra, but because they are not grassland/plains, and because we usually keep old growth forests on tundra since that's the only thing making tundra barely worth working, so it's a little easier to find higher appeal tundra tiles. Grassland/plains/deserts are just as good for neighborhoods in the late game as any other tile. And low appeal tundra is just as bad for neighborhoods as any other tile. But while we'd have made use of those other tiles by late game, tundra has no other use until modern era (plant trees and lumbermill them) so they are usually conveniently available and obvious choices for Neighborhoods.

 

[Disgustipated]

I often can find tundra with +5 or +6 for neighborhoods. Even snow tiles work for neighborhoods. I make my population suffer. I just imagine them living in some large city like Minneapolis. It's cold, but they'll survive. Tundra on the coast is great for neighborhoods.

 

[AmtrakQuebec]

I often can find tundra with +5 or +6 for neighborhoods. Even snow tiles work for neighborhoods. I make my population suffer. I just imagine them living in some large city like Minneapolis. It's cold, but they'll survive. Tundra on the coast is great for neighborhoods.

Yeah, me too. I don't know what maps mnf has been looking at but most Tundra spots I see have lots of 5 or 6 neighbourhoods.

 

[Gorbles]

Given everybody complaining about how Civilisation needs realism, I find the idea that all tile types need to be useful when in reality they're not slightly funny.

That said, in terms of pure games design, "dead space" is a good inclusion when plotting city expansion and settling points. Adding to this Russia's perk; whether or not it's actually useful in terms of game balance (I think it's a bit underwhelming), conceptually it allows Russia to hold territory other Civilisations can't, varying map development and changing available player choices.

 

[mnf]

Yeah, me too. I don't know what maps mnf has been looking at but most Tundra spots I see have lots of 5 or 6 neighbourhoods.

You only need 4 Appeal to get +6 Neighborhoods, they're just as common on tundra as on any other tile. +5 is even easier, any 2-3 appeal tile gives +5. Tundra in itself has no effect on appeal. That's the point I was trying to make.

 

[Victoria]

Also good for religion. If you are on the edge of tundra with good tiles you can do OK . If you move away you leave more barb spawning grounds. Work the bottom half until districts, use the top half for a great holy site and districts and mines/lumber. Its more guaranteed than desert and the are no civs above you

 

[darkace77450]

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

Later in the game you can plant forests. Plant forests on those tundra tiles, and then build logging camps over them.

That's a simple yet effective way to make them useful. Thanks.

 

[Zhahz]

Because it's tundra? And for most of mankinds history it was a barren wasteland with few uses? Resource tiles still work fine on it and you can still do districts and some wonders on it probably. I'd say when you throw in internal trade routes it's easier than ever in Civ 6 to build a crap city in a crap location and still have it be a decent city.

 

[AmtrakQuebec]

Because it's tundra? And for most of mankinds history it was a barren wasteland with few uses? Resource tiles still work fine on it and you can still do districts and some wonders on it probably. I'd say when you throw in internal trade routes it's easier than ever in Civ 6 to build a crap city in a crap location and still have it be a decent city.

Actually, they are less productive, which seems rather strange since a diamond mine in the arctic (like the one in Canada) can actually produce better quality diamonds than most of the diamonds mines in warmer climates.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Given everybody complaining about how Civilisation needs realism, I find the idea that all tile types need to be useful when in reality they're not slightly funny.

That said, in terms of pure games design, "dead space" is a good inclusion when plotting city expansion and settling points. Adding to this Russia's perk; whether or not it's actually useful in terms of game balance (I think it's a bit underwhelming), conceptually it allows Russia to hold territory other Civilisations can't, varying map development and changing available player choices.

That's why I would prefer that tundra and desert tiles actually had some penalty for districts (say -2 housing per neighborhood in desert/tundra and triple maintenance for the district and all buildings)