Why Is Youth So Left-Wing?

[RedWolf]

A better society is made by people who succeed on their own merits rather than piggyback off of others.

And my point is that some people will always be unable to succeed on their on merits due to the situation they were born into and that someone like me born into white picket fence suburbia can't look down and wonder why they're "lazy" when in fact I've been given countless benefits as compared to them. Simply through chance and nothing to do with my "merits".

Nobody wants that kind of life, but nobody is forcing them to live that way except themselves. I didn't put them in the shanty town.

The point of capitalism is for you to make your life better, and for me to make mine better. I didn't say that for capitalism to work you had to profit at the expense of others, I'd say that it is on the contrary.

My point is that I'm not blaming you for putting them in the shanty town.. I'm saying YOU (and me) are better off if they don't live in a shanty town.

Nobody's forcing them to live there? How about economic reality? It's called a lack of options... when you're poor, and your families poor and your mom's a drug addict and the only school for you to go to is a slum and your parents can't read and don't care you don't have ANY chance.

That is what the gated communities are for. If the situation in a country was that dire, I'd have no hesitations on supporting pass laws similar to those formerly used by South Africa. Note that these would not on the basis of race but on economics.

This is the fundamental difference between us which makes this conversation pointless and a waste of both of our time. I'd rather see society improve by giving somebody a chance and investing in people because some of those poor people if given a shot may be able to contribute to the world we live in. You would rather build a big damn gate and put snipers in the guard towers. So be it.

It isn't a game when you put text in my mouth.

Not putting words in your mouth... just saying it's the same thing.

 

[newfangle]

See my signature Redwolf.

Seriously, your goals are admirable. There is no rational person that wishes to see people held back.

But the ONLY thing it boils down to is: at whose expense?

The world you dream of can only be obtained through the forced redistribution of wealth, that (ignoring the obvious moral-philosophical implications) is an unstable and self-destructive means of attaining any ends.

The amount of success any society on earth has had has been direcetly proportional to how free its citizens have been.

Your views are those of the destruction of the individual. They only lead to one end, whether it be Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany, or Fascist Italy.

 

[newfangle]

The hard-core right opinion is very simple - you're poor and your mom's a drug addict so therefore you deserve to die from starvation or from some completely curable disease due to lack of health care.

I just noticed this. Its obvious that you are impervious to reason, and your mind is made up.

 

[col]

As I posted earlier, even the hardest edged right wing economist is familiar with the idea of venture capitalism. Not every investment will pay off but enough do for us to make a profit. Equally fledgling busineses get a start. Society cant afford to write off talent wherever it may be found. I have a recurring thought that perhaps the greatest genius on the planet who could advance Physics fifty years and bring a new age of prosperity to me and everyone else may right now be 8 year old, living in poverty and missing out on the education I need him to have.

Supporting underpriviliged members of a community is not done out of charity. It is done because a cost benefit analysis shows that the returns of education and social and health support far out weigh the costs.

We all gain by spending our taxes investing in people for the future.

 

[nonconformist]

Your views are those of the destruction of the individual. They only lead to one end, whether it be Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany, or Fascist Italy.

That is wrong- Fascist Spain lasted years, and only fell upon the death of Franco.

 

[Dann]

Ever been to a poor dirt hole of a country where the vast majority are terribly poor? Where they have very high crime rates and the rich can't risk walking the streets or where they have armed guards patrolling the tourist resorts? Or where car jacking and kidnapping is the national pas time?

Why yes. I grew up in one.

I'd rather pay some taxes and have ALL people be moderately taken care of then live in a society where some poor person is going to kidnap me and send my ear back to my family in an attempt to garner a ransom in order for them to pay for their child's medical bills.

As do I. But where I came from the kidnap syndicates you speak of are not poor desperate people. They're professional criminals with vast connections. They research their targets beforehand, even checking out if the victims have sufficient liquid assets in the bank or not. Their planning is meticulous, and they have moles even in the police force. They're in it in order to live like kings without having to work for it, not to pay for their child's medical bills.

 

[Mise]

The world you dream of can only be obtained through the forced redistribution of wealth, that (ignoring the obvious moral-philosophical implications) is an unstable and self-destructive means of attaining any ends.

I hate to throw a spanner in the works here, but the redistribution of wealth has been happening for the better half of the last century. And it's still going strong! Shock horror! Whatever you say about communism and the far left, there is no denying that social security and the welfare state has had a positive impact on society.

 

[storealex]

Why yes. I grew up in one.

As do I. But where I came from the kidnap syndicates you speak of are not poor desperate people. They're professional criminals with vast connections. They research their targets beforehand, even checking out if the victims have sufficient liquid assets in the bank or not. Their planning is meticulous, and they have moles even in the police force. They're in it in order to live like kings without having to work for it, not to pay for their child's medical bills.

And these hardcore criminals. Do you think they grew up in nice middleclass homes and one did simply decided to become criminals?
My point is that hardcore criminals simply are capitalists without any moral restrain to not dammage other people. And hardcore criminals will allways be found in extreme systems that make people suffer.
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Lovely Wendie99

 

[storealex]

Newfangle, rmsharpe and other anti redistribution people. I would really like you to answer to this post:

Ok, in all capitalist societies there will always be poor contributers. I belive they are called the working poor in England. These people are necessary for the whole thing to go around. These people contribute all their life, yet many of them have no money in the bank or saved up other places. One day a worker become too I'll to work. His friends have no money, he has no money, his fammily has no money. And he dies of some curable flue or something.
Wouldn't it be better for all of us if we gave him a chance, made sure there was welfare so he would survive and be able to come back and work when he got fresh again?
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ANIME VIDEOS

 

[storealex]

The world you dream of can only be obtained through the forced redistribution of wealth, that (ignoring the obvious moral-philosophical implications) is an unstable and self-destructive means of attaining any ends.

The amount of success any society on earth has had has been direcetly proportional to how free its citizens have been.

Your views are those of the destruction of the individual. They only lead to one end, whether it be Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany, or Fascist Italy.

Bull S. This is "look how bad we are doing in evil cummie Denmark again" Jesus we are number twelve in the worldwide money per person list. No mather what you say you can't change that fact.

I belive forced redistribution is the only moral thing to do in a world that has proven that charity is insufficient. I don't mind paying for other people till they get their feet back on the ground. I don't mind giving. I don't mind sharing. What I do mind is paying for freeloaders. This should be changed yes, but not all people on welfare are freeloaders you know...

The amount of success any society on earth has had has been direcetly proportional to a great deal of things, and to say that freedom is the only factor is a big fat lie. Look how free the American Indians were. Still they got slaughtered. Let's not even begin this discussion here. If interested make a new thread called "Factors that give succes to a society"
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HONDA CT90 HISTORY

 

[nonconformist]

y are called the working poor in England. These people are necessary for the whole thing to go around. These people contribute all their life, yet many of them have no money in the bank or saved up other places. One day a worker become too I'll to work. His friends have no money, he has no money, his fammily has no money. And he dies of some curable flue or something.

These are the miners , and manual labourers of thee world.

 

[aaron_burr]

Newfangle, rmsharpe and other anti redistribution people. I would really like you to answer to this post:

Ok, in all capitalist societies there will always be poor contributers. I belive they are called the working poor in England. These people are necessary for the whole thing to go around. These people contribute all their life, yet many of them have no money in the bank or saved up other places. One day a worker become too I'll to work. His friends have no money, he has no money, his fammily has no money. And he dies of some curable flue or something.
Wouldn't it be better for all of us if we gave him a chance, made sure there was welfare so he would survive and be able to come back and work when he got fresh again?

He dies from a furnace vent? j/k. Sure, poor people need help, but it's not the government's responsibility. First, it's the family, then the church, then private charity. And some will always fall through the cracks. The biggest problem with institutional government welfare is that it rewards unproductive behavior, thereby encouraging it. There will always be enough to go around, because the state can extort more from the workers. So, the poor demand more and more. In a private system, people can eventually say no. In fact, if we had a monarchy, I would be less opposed to social welfare, because the king wouldn't be pressured by poor people's votes and could make a rational decision.

Mise: We basically agree on law. An unjust law is void. You just have to be ready to suffer the punishment, or not get caught. That's another idea that goes right back to St. Paul. And most laws (gun laws, cell phone laws, drug laws, and the drinking age come to mind) have no basis in the so-called "natural law" and we are thus under no moral imperative to follow them.

 

[RedWolf]

I just noticed this. Its obvious that you are impervious to reason, and your mind is made up.

Umm... I was just taking the opinion of one of our more hard-core right wingers around here.

I admit that there's varying degrees of "right-wingism". Many aren't heartless - others are. I've had arguments with a number of people (even in real life) that quit frankly admit "I don't care what happens to them - it's not my problem".

 

[amadeus]

That is wrong- Fascist Spain lasted years, and only fell upon the death of Franco.

Franco wasn't ideological like Germany, Italy, or Russia.

 

[newfangle]

And my point wasn't that it lasts a short amount of time. I don't even know why he posted that.

 

[storealex]

Sure, poor people need help, but it's not the government's responsibility.

Only the government can help efficiently. Private charity, the chuch - they all fail to do half of the job.
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Booty

 

[newfangle]

Several opinions here only enforce my belief that I should own as many guns as possible.

 

[storealex]

Why is it rmsharpe and newfangle ignore my question about their dream society?
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Easyvape

 

[Archer 007]

I hate to throw a spanner in the works here, but the redistribution of wealth has been happening for the better half of the last century. And it's still going strong! Shock horror! Whatever you say about communism and the far left, there is no denying that social security and the welfare state has had a positive impact on society.

Societies on the verge of bankruptcy.

 

[Archer 007]

Only the government can help efficiently. Private charity, the chuch - they all fail to do half of the job.

Charity would go up if the government stopped robbing people blind.