Why Steam is bad for you

It can. Just click the option not to keep the game up to date :lol:

Might do you well to learn a little more about steam before you criticize it too much.

No - see, this is what is just completely nuts about Steam.

I didn't buy Civ 5 - or any game for that matter, especially a game weighted heavily towards solo play - to get access to Steam. I was FORCED to get access to Steam to play what I paid for.

Ergo, there should be exactly close to ZERO "learn a little about Steam" required. I couldn't care less about Steam. I shouldn't HAVE to care about Steam.

For a game like Civ5 - "Steam" is nothing more than the digital equivalent of the cardboard box one used to get from Brick-n-mortar distribution.... It's a wrapper, a wrapper I couldn't care less about and rip open as soon as I got home.

I don't care one way another about the cardboard box... UNLESS - the cardboard box is nailed together with oak, requires tools to open, AND a visit to a support site to figure out exactly what size hexhead screwdriver it takes to open. Then - I think I'm pretty darn right to be angry....

I didn't buy the box, I bought the game.... the box should be innocuous and go away when I'm done opening the game.

If people are complaining about Steam -- and they are here, they are on other boards for other games, and they even are on Steam's own support site -- then the problem is not those complainers.... the problem is not people that don't read the support site.

The problem is Steam.

Steam is of zero value to me EXCEPT in its role as a digital cardboard box.... the idea that it should take me more than 10 seconds and that I should have to "read about" how to open a frakkin' cardboard box in order to get at what I actually purchased is pure lunacy.
 
But yours wasn't steam. Try your volume control?

r u ignorant or just a troll?/QUOTE

Ironically enough, the broken quote, lack of spelling, capitalization, rude and accusatory tone in your sentence make you look like an ignorant troll yourself. Not trying to be rude, just pointing out the obvious. There is no way Steam should affect your sound drivers, it doesn't install sound drivers.
 
The hilarious thing is all the people who say "I don't use the extra features steam provides" fail to realise that this isn't an argument against the devs using it - it's whether steamworks features are used and liked by the majority, as well as being one of the less-obtrusive DRMs.
 
It's still bad on principle to force steam on ppl.
 
It's still bad on principle to force steam on ppl.

This is a video game. You knew about the Steam dependency before you bought it. No one "forced" you at gun point to purchase the game.

I don't buy Ubisoft games anymore, no matter how much I'd like them or how long I've played a series (Settlers, for example). If HoMM6 comes with the same online DRM, I will not buy it -- and yes, that'll hurt.

People who dislike Steam just need to exercise some self control and abstain. It's a product like any other. For me, the Steam connection is an advantage, as I use its features, appreciate the auto-updating, etc.
 
I'd rather have steam than Games for Windows
I'd rather have steam than Gamespy
I'd rather have steam than Luddite DRM.

The only real complaint people have against steam that makes sense, is that it is a little heavy to have to deal with. I have no idea what the game installation process is like if you don't already have steam installed, but I can imagine it feeling very long. And then you have to run an intermediate program at startup to get your game going.
 
First, thanks to everyone in this thread for your opinions on Steam. As you can see, I am a long time CIV player. I'm not a modder or a multiplayer. I don't have a clue about C++, Python, etc. I don't spend much time on these forums anymore, and I'm probably older than all of you.

I would like to play CIV5 with minimal hassle. Given a choice, I would like to purchase the game CD, load it on my machine, and play. Am I correct in saying that I will never be able to purchase this game without signing up for Steam? I do play OOTP as well, so I am somewhat familiar with this method of purchasing a game, but this whole Steam thing seems like way more than I want to get involved with.

Am I just too old and computer illiterate to handle Steam?
 
Am I just too old and computer illiterate to handle Steam?
Unlikely. Essentially, Steam is just a little bit of extra software that is very similar to a web browser in general handling and feel. If you buy Steam software in retail (such as Civ5), you still need a Steam account... but: To do so, you only need to have an e-mail account, then you choose a username and password.

In short: If you are able to download and install something from the internet and if you are able to create an user account (...which you definitely can, since you've signed up here), you're most likely to be able to handle Steam.

As long as you restrict yourself to getting free demos over Steam and buying Steam games as retail DVDs, you don't even have to whip out your credit/debit card.

Cheers, LT.
 
a lot of the complaints about steam are based on heresy or outdated information or simple paranoia.
I base my complaints solely on the EULA. I read it. No thanks. Assuming you read it, then we can agree to disagree. But that is the point. I do NOT let companies force me to use 3rd party software I don't want on my computer. Period. Just like I don't install spyware, torrents or anything else of that nature. Plus I can't stomach a company selling my personal information for cash. Steam + CiV = no sale ever.
 
This is a video game. You knew about the Steam dependency before you bought it. No one "forced" you at gun point to purchase the game.

I don't buy Ubisoft games anymore, no matter how much I'd like them or how long I've played a series (Settlers, for example). If HoMM6 comes with the same online DRM, I will not buy it -- and yes, that'll hurt.

People who dislike Steam just need to exercise some self control and abstain. It's a product like any other. For me, the Steam connection is an advantage, as I use its features, appreciate the auto-updating, etc.

ARGH.

It's NOT A PRODUCT!

It's a distribution channel!

Or - to put it another way, would you pay to subscribe to Steam -- completely agnostic of any games? If Steam cost $10 a month... or hell... $10 a year, before you even bought a game, but just for the privilege of possibly buying a game through them -- would you pay it?

I'm sure there are those that would but most do not -- it's just a cardboard box in 1s and 0s!

It's the difference between a subscription-based netmusic service and itunes -- no one has to pay for itunes because it's just a delivery channel for what you DO buy (and I'd also note, after a lot of complaining, Apple... again... the king of "my way or the highway"... gave in the market needs and now lets you port what you buy into other systems). However, you DO pay for Rhapsody because you're buying access through their interface, rather than the song itself (and, of course... they also DO offer MP3 for sale individually which DOESN'T require you to go through their interface after you've purchased).

I would also quibble with Steam being a "known dependency" -- my box said nothing about a Steam dependency, solely "internet connection to activate".

Look - this is not a totally foreign concept to me. In addition to having experience buying via other digital channels, I work for a company that publishes professional software and content distribution (for CPAs, law firms, etc). Just last year, our new tax form filing software - which was originally going to be a dll-based thin client, but ended up being a local install - launched. There was a setting - accessible and noticeable directly on the GUI main page - that allowed users the option to save work and work locally. Within the first two weeks - we got the first complaint/question about the need for web access (the online iteration includes practice tips, news updates and other help features, the local client only including the basic tool help files). We didn't complain about "read the help files" or "call customer support, you can do this offline already" -- we immediately released v1.1 where we directly in the install asked upfront "Do you prefer to work offline" vs. "Do you prefer to work online". We linked to a description of the advantages of working online - and what defaulting to working offline would mean, but ultimately -- based on just ONE customer complaint, we did the very small amount of work necessary to make the install work in a way the customer wanted.

The customer is always right, at least, for any IT company worth its salt... That doesn't mean you have to turn your brain off - sure, I've fielded irrational complaints -- but ultimately, you give the customer what they want if it's within reason and realm of possibility to provide it.

In this case - something like our solution, which took all of 90 minutes to code, and just another day to test, I simply cannot imagine it would be any harder for Steam - is an easily implemented solution. If you google "Steam play offline" -- I think the results speak for themselves about the number of people that want this available as a default option.... without needing to look for the way to do it... without needing to go online, then offline...
 
Zonk, you have Steam & Steamworks mixed together. Which is fair enough as Valve dont do much do differentiate them.
 
It's still bad on principle to force steam on ppl.

Nobody forced anything on you. It's a choice. Want to play the latest PC games ?

you have three choices : Draconian DRM of the Ubisoft variety, Steam registration and light DRM or the Impulse no DRM,but must register to get patches, variety.

What do they all have in common now ? A net connection for verification.

Welcome to the 21st century of gaming.

My first (commercial) games came on an audio cassette and loaded into my ZX80 (yes 80 not 81. I built it from a kit), maybe we should go back to those ?

Steam is relatively unobtrusive and convenient.
 
zonk that isn't really an option for Steam as it is also a method of DRM.
.

I don't see why not - I understand the argument that binding locally isn't true "DRM". I don't buy it, but I get the argument... I would counter that binding to a local MAC address and doing a one-time check for uniqueness is just as secure as server-based DRM... I can understand that NICs/etc get replaced - and then you just have a totally different set of issues - but it's easy enough to unbind my game ID from one MAC to another.

Ultimately, my fundamental issue with Steam -- and yes, I have read about though not experienced directly, the Ubisoft debacle -- is the over-reliance (or maybe over-defaulting) to local pc to server interaction.

It's a fundamentally flawed model because servers go down. ISPs have problems.

Yes, there are ways around this on Steam... but like I said, if you require me to go ONLINE in order to get OFFLINE, that's a problem... because when my ISP takes a dump or if I'm in situation where I simply cannot establish a good connection - you've really screwed me.
 
It's a product like any other.

No other piece of software on my pc requires a third party service to run.

Welcome to the 21st century of gaming.
Civ4 came out in 2005 and only had a simple disc check. And "everybody else is doing it" does not make it right.
 
Well before we go into beliving that Civ IV was DRM free all the way...

According to http://www.wiki4games.com/Civilization_4#cite_note-3 it used SafeDisc as DRM tool and acording to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SafeDisc this comes with a nice feature that could grant a hacker administration access to the computer...

Also it have in some cases damaged CD and DVD burners destrying them totally or just removed the option to burn anything before a complete reinstall of the OS.

Now Steam might be bad and might be good but its definetly an improvement from Safedisc in my book. Now we have it written on the back of the box that it requires steam then we can decide to buy or not to buy. Back when Civ IV came out nothing was written about Safedisc anywhere...

After all I like to know what my options are (1. Accept the choice of 3. party software as DRM tool, 2. Refuse to buy the game (And thereby to play it))

For me I already refuse to play some games due to the DRM choice (Permanent Internet connection is a big no no if im going to pay any money).

So yeah for those not using steam already I can see why you hate it but for those (like me) that already have 10+ games on steam its just nice to have it all in one place... And after all I like the benefits of Steam more than those of Safedisc or the permanent internet DRM
 
Thanks, Lord Terium and duxup.
 
No other piece of software on my pc requires a third party service to run.


Civ4 came out in 2005 and only had a simple disc check. And "everybody else is doing it" does not make it right.

Java, Flash, a PDF reader (Foxit > Adobe Reader), the ISP company, hell even Windows is a 3rd party OS (you could use Linux for FREE instead, but then you wouldn't have Civ5) are all 3rd party software you have to have to run various other things. I bet you also have an anti-virus program too, if you read into it you can program your router to be so effective you don't get viruses and if you did there is for Windows 7 some Microsoft programs that from what I've heard do a great job along with a bit of common sense safe browsing.

Looks like SafeDisc's wikipedia page has been expanded since I last looked at it. Anyways, that's what Sandboxie is for.
Great! Another 3rd party program you need to run!
 
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