[GS] Why Sumeria is Still OP

[Lily_Lancer]

13 war carts and 5 cities at T30. No other Civs can do this (Online speed Deity). Especially when the nearest neighbor is 12 tiles away from you.

I guess the only Civ cannot be rushed by Sumeria is Chandragupta/Gandhi, they always get to Varu at T20~25, so only Egpyt can rush them. (However Egpytian rush finishes later, not as quick as Sumeria's)

 

[Victoria]

Then you pop down Ziggurats and it is game over. Do you play poor civs at deity for the challenge? Or is speed and guaranteed wins your main desire?
Warcarts don’t always help either, like archer rushes, they need clear ground but the combination of powers does put them at god tier.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Then you pop down Ziggurats and it is game over. Do you play poor civs at deity for the challenge? Or is speed and guaranteed wins your main desire?
Warcarts don’t always help either, like archer rushes, they need clear ground but the combination of powers does put them at god tier.

I'm just trying out different Civs to see if my view on different Civs being correct or not in online Deity. Since I haven't tried all these Civs.

Norway, Egpyt, Korea and Sumeria are ensured to be top tier in my gameplays. They play exactly as I imagined. Except for Berserkers, they're so bad so I guess I'll never use them again. I used to think it as a moderate unit.

China is a little different. Qin Shihuang's unique wonder ability is not as useful as I imagined, however Great Walls are definitely OP so China is still among the best Civs.

I'm trying out other Civs since in fact online deity after September patch really makes a lot of differences. For example, I find that archer rush is only possible on online Deity if you have an archer UU. When I try to archer rush a very close Ottoman using Victoria, I failed.

 

[Victoria]

Great Walls are definitely OP

Yes, I struggle with other people’s view on this. I did use to view them differently (thought they were OK) but played a game last week.

 

[Attakuiu]

I'm just trying out different Civs to see if my view on different Civs being correct or not in online Deity. Since I haven't tried all these Civs.

Norway, Egpyt, Korea and Sumeria are ensured to be top tier in my gameplays. They play exactly as I imagined. Except for Berserkers, they're so bad so I guess I'll never use them again. I used to think it as a moderate unit.

China is a little different. Qin Shihuang's unique wonder ability is not as useful as I imagined, however Great Walls are definitely OP so China is still among the best Civs.

I'm trying out other Civs since in fact online deity after September patch really makes a lot of differences. For example, I find that archer rush is only possible on online Deity if you have an archer UU. When I try to archer rush a very close Ottoman using Victoria, I failed.

Why Norway ? I agree with you when you say Sumeria is very OP, for me is still the best civ of the game. I play multiplayer games in Pangea map very often and the civ with ancient unique units are on the top list. Norway has the Viking Longship: it's strong but it's a ship.. :/

 

[kb27787]

T30 online is T60 standard correct?
I guess the only thing that comes close is Nubia archer rush with some favorable open terrain

 

[Lily_Lancer]

T30 online is T60 standard correct?
I guess the only thing that comes close is Nubia archer rush with some favorable open terrain

Very incorrect. People who have never played online speed will always has such misunderstandings, however you can never reach 2x development on online speed than on standard speed. The true ratio is somewhere between 1.3x to 1.5x. I have a thread discussing about it.

If you don't think so, just try Nubia on online speed. Yes I can rush my neighbor as Nubia but only at somewhere between T40~50. You must be a better player that you can do it on T30 online speed.

Why Norway ? I agree with you when you say Sumeria is very OP, for me is still the best civ of the game. I play multiplayer games in Pangea map very often and the civ with ancient unique units are on the top list. Norway has the Viking Longship: it's strong but it's a ship.. :/

I play continents, and exploring another continent early is extremely valuable. Especially when that continent is also sth. you can pillage.

Yes Norway is sth. only good at PVE. In PVP other players won't let you pillage. They'd rather not build anything on coastal tiles, or always have some soldiers stand on it.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Then you pop down Ziggurats and it is game over. Do you play poor civs at deity for the challenge? Or is speed and guaranteed wins your main desire?
Warcarts don’t always help either, like archer rushes, they need clear ground but the combination of powers does put them at god tier.

But in all fairness, the war cart's power is doubted. Some people think they don't work on deity.

Yea I know.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

But in all fairness, the war cart's power is doubted. Some people think they don't work on deity.

Yea I know.

They not only works on Deity but also works on online speed Deity.
They not only works on online Deity but also works on online Deity even if your neighbor is not close from yours (12 tiles away).
They not only works on online Deity and far away neighbors, but also works on online Deity and far away neighbors without flat land ( in fact as you can see more than half of the Russian lands are hills).

They not only works on online Deity and far away neighbors without flat land, but also works on online Deity and far away neighbors without flat land with significant speed. (<T30)

They only don't work for Chandragputa and Gandhi, you need Maryannu Chariot Archers.

 

[Rosty K]

Well, it's also kinda hard to rush Canada sometimes

I've recently had a game as Sumeria, it's not just war-carts, it seems to be one of those civs (or maybe even the only one) which have every Unique OP

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Well, it's also kinda hard to rush Canada sometimes

I've recently had a game as Sumeria, it's not just war-carts, it seems to be one of those civs (or maybe even the only one) which have every Unique OP

For Canada, Denounce as soon as you meet him.

 

[enKage]

How it works against Eleonor and Australia?

 

[The googles do nothing]

Why Norway ? I agree with you when you say Sumeria is very OP, for me is still the best civ of the game. I play multiplayer games in Pangea map very often and the civ with ancient unique units are on the top list. Norway has the Viking Longship: it's strong but it's a ship.. :/

I'm assuming there will be a thread about that too. Norway has strong catch up abilities in SP. Not only pillaging but you can wait until classical to build Longships, get that era score and then get score for exploration and almost guarantee a gold age timed with harbors and CH. Also by then the AI should have built some coastal infrastruture.

Like you say MP is different because unlike the AI people will fight back and the only civs that build on the coast will be naval oriented civs who can fight back.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

How it works against Eleonor and Australia?

Is there any special for these two?
On Online Deity your enemy is already running on 1 soldier per turn per city, so Australia makes no sense.
Eleonor? I bet you don't know the speed of taking cities. There won't be enough time for cities to flip.

 

[_hero_]

An interesting discussion is universally OP vs map dependent OP civs. War cart rushes being impossible on isolated maps obviously limits just how OP this strategy is.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

I'm assuming there will be a thread about that too. Norway has strong catch up abilities in SP. Not only pillaging but you can wait until classical to build Longships, get that era score and then get score for exploration and almost guarantee a gold age timed with harbors and CH. Also by then the AI should have built some coastal infrastruture.

Like you say MP is different because unlike the AI people will fight back and the only civs that build on the coast will be naval oriented civs who can fight back.

The main issue is that when you choose Norway other players can see before gamestart so they tend to avoid being pillaged by Longships from T0. However AIs no nothing about that, neither there exist Norway on map(before you meet each other), nor do they know how to avoid being pillaged.

 

[i_imperator]

How do you go about building the war carts? Straight to maneuver for the 50% (after a city settle or two) or do you build them straight from the beginning?

 

[steveg700]

Yes, I struggle with other people’s view on this. I did use to view them differently (thought they were OK) but played a game last week.

People want the wall to be defensive, not just a mechanical abstraction by which extra gold and culture is generated (i.e. a sphinx or hockey rink variant). Early game China is looking to build builders and wonders, so providing a jumped-up fort that has to be manned isn't helping their focus. Ludo-narrative disconnect.

 

[Victoria]

straight from the beginning?

This by far is best.

a jumped-up fort that has to be manned isn't helping their focus.

Whatever you think, try not to over exaggerate or mis lead

 

[tetley]

I just tried Sumeria based on this. Yeah, Sumeria's pretty awesome. It's those war carts combined with the barb camp=tribal village bonus. I did not anticipate that combination. I also did not expect to be building multiple scouts, but that's what happened. I gave my scouts the barb camps.

However, who is Gilgamesh's dentist? Whoever is taking care of his teeth, I want that guy.