Why upgrade?

[Lohengrin]

I and my friends have been having a lot of fun playing FfH II. We are currently using the 0.21 version. Now that we are about to start a new game, we are thinking of upgrading. We will almost certainly download 0.23. However, we are not certain about 0.25 because it requires BtS and BtS has not impressed us from what we can see of it. There seems to be little reason to get it. Yet, if there is something in 0.25 that we really want, we would be willing to buy BtS just to be able to get 0.25.

So, is there anywhere that lists the differences between 0.23 and 0.25? Is there some reason why we should buy BtS?

 

[woodelf]

First and foremost all remaining work for FfH2 will be done for BtS. The rest will be left as is. 0.25 is basically the conversion from Vanilla to BtS so that further work can be started. In the long run it will be worth buying BtS, but for now I can't tell you to buy it just for the beta 0.25 version.

 

[R0GERSHRUBBER]

At this point, if you have no interest in BTS (!?!), it might not be worth picking it up in the immediate future just for .25. Don't get me wrong, 25 added some nice features, but if you're really pressed for cash, you could justify waiting.

However, you will almost certainly want to pick BTS up when the next phase of FFH is completed: Shadow. If this release is anything like the last phase change, Fire, it will completely reinvent the game. And that is only the beginning, as you have the final phase, Ice, to look forward to after that, and it will also only be playable on BTS.

In light of this, even if you don't need to play FFH .25 now, if you expect to play future versions of FFH, you're going to want to pick up BTS sooner or later anyway. *shrugs*

I, for one, was very impressed by BTS, both in terms of scenarios and new features. Among the new features that are particularly noteworthy are the Apostolic Palace, espionage system, corporations, revamped space race and advanced starts, although there are a host of other minor changes that vastly improve gameplay (especially the improved AI). In fact, several of the BTS mechanics (hidden nationality and corporations, just off the top of my head) are the basis for features planned for future versions of FFH.

 

[seZereth]

as far as i know, and i could be wrong... there are still too many oos errors in multiplayer 0.25. so enjoy a good game of 0.23 while waiting for a hopefully multiplayable version 0.3 and then... upgrade

 

[Caradoc]

One advantage of waiting is that the price will surely drop. Retailers tend to discount 'expansion' products more quickly than others, because they want to clear the shelf space.

 

[Calavente]

IMO, only by reading the bug thread, going from 0.23 to 0.25 went to a BTS FFH that lost some working mechanisms. but other ones are improved... I think it is balanced in term of FFH mechanisms.
So maybe not worth buying BTS now (I am not doing it)
So for the pure multiplayer game I think it won't be interesting (plus issues in multi 0.25)
Only real interest may be for single games if better AI with BTS and 0.25. but I have no information about that...

does the AI behaves better in 0.25 than in 0.23 ?

 

[onedreamer]

[...] However, we are not certain about 0.25 because it requires BtS and BtS has not impressed us from what we can see of it. There seems to be little reason to get it. [...] Is there some reason why we should buy BtS?

The question is, WHAT can you see of BtS ? I generally avoid to judge anything I can't experience myself. My personal opinion is that BtS, despite a couple of bugs that I assume will be fixed asap, adds A LOT of worthy content to Civ4 (unlike Warlords expansion). It is alone very worth buying, if you also consider that practically all mods passed to this version, the conclusion is easy...

 

[[NWO]_Valis]

Lets not forget also Age of Ice. While you will be waiting for 'Shadow' wich will require from you BtS you can still play AoI and other mods. Personally I launched vanilla BtS only for 15 minutes to see if it works and then jumped to Finall Frontier and AoI. Tested also some other mods but only those two were interesting for me. Never the less I do not regret it and for me only those two mods would be enough to buy that expansion [without the vanilla content!]

 

[zxcvbnm]

if you want to train your units with hordes of wolves then a version of 0.22 is your choice!

 

[loki1232]

The ai did get better in BTS, like significantly.

 

[xienwolf]

I think it was Final Frontier, but there is another mod included with BtS in which you are in outer space and colonizing solar systems.

I think that giving that one a play through will help to show you just how much more can be done with mods in this game, and open you up to being MUCH more creative with input ideas for feedback in the future to the team (still trying to think how black hole type effects could be worked into this one, haven't been near the whirlpool/Maelstrom unique feature to see if it already uses the mechanic. Quicksand Unique Feature using it would rule)

 

[Calavente]

but considering AI issues with FFH mechanisms, would you say that the AI is better in 2.25 than in 2.23 ??
(it's a real question...i'm honest about it. no irony, no sarcasme... )

 

[jprc]

For adding to Calavente's question, I would point out that:

- When I played BTS (3.00 to 3.13), I had to reduce my game level by one. Surviving at Monarch in the basic Civ4 or Warlord, I was pushed back to play Prince...
So Yes, BTS is improved, and opponents develop faster and much better, hence a higher challenge

BUT

- When I tested Age of Ice and was attracted to FFH2, version 0.25, I suddenly found level Monarch easy and won my first 2 games without even knowing and understanding what I was doing!!! (What? a spell?... naaaa.. let's go with warrior...).
I do NOT know about 0.23, but when you are used to be crushed by waves of enemies and suddenly in FFH2 you have waves of catapults (even lonely catapult... poor guy) attacking you ... and cities you attack are defended by a couple of tourists, you find conquest game much easier in 0.25 (and 0.25 is based on BTS engine)...

 

[wilboman]

Yeah, sadly the vastly improved AI will take a while to import properly to FfH, the concepts are so wildly different.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Still, you will need BtS for Shadow, so it might be good to ask for it for Christmas.

 

[wilboman]

Oh yes, you definitely want BtS.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

I have BtS and I donloaded FfH II 0.25, but there are some bugs and I have read
0.23 is more "polished", so I think I'll try 0.23, but what exactly is the difference between 0.23 and 0.25 ?
What was added in 0.25 apart from BtS events ?

 

[wilboman]

0.25 is the trial version of the port to BtS. Apart from BtS features getting added in as part of the transfer, very little has changed. Basically, it is 0.23, just running on the BtS codebase.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

I take it then that espionage and something like corporations will be added with "Shadow".
Does it make sense for me to download 0.23 ?

 

[wilboman]

If you want a bug-free, polished, packed and finished version of "Fire" while you wait for us to get a beta of Shadow up and running, definitely.