Why were no jets scrambled on 9-11?

[Laughing Gull]

Originally posted by Marla_Singer


Well anyway, seriously speaking , they are actually real reasons to believe the attack on Iraq was planned before the Sept. 11th. The book of Paul O'Neill talks about it. Paul Wolfowitz and Don Rumsfeld really wanted to invade Iraq during Bush's mandate.

However, they didn't let happen the Sept. 11th just for that ! That would be a truely stupid and counterproductive move to me !

LOL right back at you for the same reason you LOL'd me! except I didn't miss your point!

yeah yeah, I know what you're talking about. PBS had a program about a year ago talking about the Wolfowitz plan. "Project for a new American Century" or something like that, where they outline plans that included regieme chang in Iraq.


I take it you think I mean Wolfowitz and Chenney allowed 9/11 to happen so they had an excuse. ... wrong. you misunderstand or ..whatever.

I was just saying 9/11 happened, and it made for a convienient excuse to go after Iraq... they wanted to go almost immediatly.

 

[The Yankee]

Originally posted by Shadylookin
if i'm not mistaken Bush wasn't in DC that day and congress wasn't in session(is this correct) If what i said is correct then DC wouldn't be a primary target in the eyes of most people since other than killing the pres. or killing congress one wouldn't much consider DC a target. Assuming I didn't see everything after it all happend I would have guessed the empire state building, sears tower or statue of liberity a target worth protecting as opposed to the pentagon. Perhaps everyone was so dumbfounded as to what the hell is this, that they weren't thinking about protecting the pentagon. I don't see Bush letting this happen had he known prior, think about it he could have stopped it been the hero who saved hundreds of lives and still he would have got to attack afghanistan.

Bush was in Florida that day. He was notified minutes after the incidents. I don't remember if Congress was in session then, but there were plenty of representatives still around. Rumsfeld was in his Pentagon office, so on. Most people were where they usually are. Still, we probably have enough jets to cover all those areas, it's not like we had only 4 planes and figure out where to send and protect.

As everyone knows, Bush was in Air Force One most of the day after the initial hits.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

why did Rummy and Cheney want to go into Iraq 5 hours after the jets hit, but Bush said that it wasn't a good time now?

They've been looking for an excuse since 1989. No, they didn't want to "since before September 11". Bush stuffed his cabinet with Pnacers [Project for a New American Century, a neoconservative think tank founded by neocon enfant terrible Will Kristol. Pronounced "nackers" - the p is silent]. The PNAC big-chiefs sent a letter to Slick Willy in 1998 advising him to invade Iraq. However, the Pnacers themselves [among them Armitage, Bolton, Kahlilzad, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle, Rumsfeld - sound familiar?] are carryovers either physically or philosophically from the Reagan regime, like Bush himself.

If you wanted to reduce the goal of the PNAC to two sentences, you could put it like this.

"During the Cold War American business, industry, and military contractors, as well as diplomats and foreign policy operatives, benefited from the existence of the Soviet Union; however, now that the threat of the USSR has evaporated, America must seek new enemies to fight so as to solidify our grasp on world hegemony, stop the growing tide of opposed or neutral governments flaunting their political independence from us, and provide an excuse to the American taxpayer for the continued bloated state of the defence budget.

Two birds can be killed with one stone by fighting against the former dictatorial regimes which we installed to combat the USSR's influence, not only because they are oppressive, dictatorial, beginning to assert their political independence from Washington, and relatively defenseless, but also because if they are not overthrown soon, the people of these states will surely rise in national revolution which will result in native governments over which the USA will have relatively little control."

 

[Laughing Gull]

Originally posted by Pontiuth Pilate
why did Rummy and Cheney want to go into Iraq 5 hours after the jets hit, but Bush said that it wasn't a good time now?

They've been looking for an excuse since 1989. No, they didn't want to "since before September 11"

Im confused by this statment. They were looking for an excuse to do something they didn't want to do?

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

The idea that they wanted to since shortly before 9-11 is a deliberate obscuring of the facts.

When George Bush, for example, backed down from the "fact" that Saddam Hussein had WMD, and now is merely claiming that he had WMD "programs & program capabilities", nobody was fooled and everyone still knows that he was, and is, talking through his hat.

Similarly, when the existence of the PNAC became common knowledge to the American public and not just known to us leftist wackos - when the discovery that PNAC members had been planning an invasion of Iraq since before the end of the Cold War was imminent, therefore - the Administration dispatched damage control personnel to spread the idea that PNAC had been planning since "shortly before 9-11" or "since Bush took office".

In both cases, the second stance is just a fallback lie; it's bad for PR but it's better than having the whole truth made common knowledge.

 

[ltcoljt]

You know sometimes I wonder how Arafat can so easily recruit people to do something as stupid as blow themselves up and then I read you folks and I cringe. We are all gonna die.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

If anyone's recruiting terrorists at the moment, it's the PNAC, and in case you didn't catch the biting irony in my commentary , I disagree with them on [nearly] ever point of foreign policy.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Argh sorry Laughing Gull. I thought you were kiddin'...

Well anyway, I have nothing to say in this thread except that I seriously believe that no one "let happen" the September 11th.

 

[Laughing Gull]

Originally posted by ltcoljt
You know sometimes I wonder how Arafat can so easily recruit people to do something as stupid as blow themselves up and then I read you folks and I cringe. We are all gonna die.

what exactly are you referring to? things being posted here that are contrary to what you had allready established to yourself as fact?

 

[Sims2789]

Originally posted by Marla_Singer
Argh sorry Laughing Gull. I thought you were kiddin'...

Well anyway, I have nothing to say in this thread except that I seriously believe that no one "let happen" the September 11th.

i don't either. i just said that it wouldn't suprise me if that was the case.

 

[Sims2789]

here's what Former German Cabinet Minister Andreas Von Buelow said. "For 60 decisive minutes, the military and intelligence agencies let the fighter planes stay on the ground, 48 hours later, however, the FBI presented a list of suicide attackers. Within ten days, it emerged that seven of them were still alive."

From http://www.dalpe.net/dread-docs/polotics2/VonBuelow.htm

 

[Archer 007]

Originally posted by eyrei


To continue with the absurdities in this thread:

Because congress cannot be trusted to do anything that requires thought.

Either that, or they were far too busy showing signs of solidarity and singing out of key, while pondering the downfall of Western Civilization.

A Congressional commission worked on the Kennedy assassination. It is just wierd of anyone to say that investagating 9-11 would hurt the nation. If anything, it would help us better understand what we are facing. Im sure you'd rather bin Laden be on the loose though.

 

[Perfection]

The jets weren't scrambled because the military was in dissarray and shock following the attacks

Bush did not send hijackers into the WTC to boost his political career.

 

[Norlamand]

Hold on! Let me make another tin foil hat and I'll be back to post a response to this thread..........

 

[Sinapus]

Originally posted by archer_007

A Congressional commission worked on the Kennedy assassination. It is just wierd of anyone to say that investagating 9-11 would hurt the nation. If anything, it would help us better understand what we are facing. Im sure you'd rather bin Laden be on the loose though.

Oh yes, the Warren Commission is such a ringing endorsement for future Congressional Inquiries.

 

[Mrogreturns]

So does all this mean that you CAN make a conspiracy without scrambling some jets?

 

[Dr Corbett]

Holy smokes, Pontiuth Pilate. I've been reading your posts and "neoconservative" seems to be your favourite word. Do you know what "neoconservatism" is or is just a catch-phrase for all the world's evils and the current home of the vast, right-wing conspiracy?

 

[Sims2789]

i did some research and i discovered that 3 hours after the 3rd jet(the one that didn't reach it's target) jets were finally scrambled, but no jets were scrambled after the other 3 jets, despite an airforce base being less than 20 miles away from the Pentagon.

 

[Sims2789]

Originally posted by Perfection


The jets weren't scrambled because the military was in dissarray and shock following the attacks

Bush did not send hijackers into the WTC to boost his political career.

the US scrambles jets about two dozen times a year.

 

[Perfection]

Originally posted by sims2789
the US scrambles jets about two dozen times a year.

So there was a failure along the communications route, you can't expect the military to work flawlessly 100% of the time, it's impossible. The fact that the military did something boneheaded doesn't mean that they're part of a massive Bush conspiricy, that's just crazy-talk!