Why were no jets scrambled on 9-11?

[Earthpig95]

Sims,

1.The Marine Fighter Wing at Andrews is a reserve unit, IE 1 weekend a month.

2. The Plane that hit the Pentagon took off from Dulles, which is also closer then 20 miles to the Pentagon.

3. The air space over the Pentagon is not secure air space, The Pentagon sits about a mile from the end of National Airports runway, planes still fly over it every couple of minutes.

4. The FAA ordered all planes to land at 9:25, so the flight returning to Dulles would not appear strange, nor would the fact that it would circle in a holding pattern around the DC area, all the pilot had to do was fly east and down for a minute or two and the he could take out any target on the mall. It hit the Pentagon at 9:45.

Earthpig

 

[Mano3]

You conspiracy theroists are just plain nuts.

Anyway, I'm an Air Force historian with a Top Secret clearance. None of what I post is classified, but rest assured, America and its allies are doing the best they can. If you could see what I see, you'd be scared to walk outside. Many attacks and attempted attacks have been stopped in the past, before 9-11, and will not be released to the press.

Also, has there been any other attacks on American soil after 9-11? Nope!

On scrambling the fighter jets: What could they do if they did? Shooting a large plane filled with fuel over NY city is not the brightest thing in the world to do. I do know for a fact that many units were scrambled late, but the problem amongst the personnel there that I've interviewed all agreed with my top statement, you don't want to shoot down a large target over population centers.

The US was not prepared for this type of attack. Read the recent headlines. Most of the terrorists were already flagged, but the FAA was too focused on hi-jacking and bomb threats. No one thought to look for hardened plastic/ceramic knives, Mace, or expect a plane to be used as a missile.

Unfortunately, history has taught us a sad lesson, but now I believe we're better prepared. It's such a shame that folks quickly forget the personal and national tragedy that 9-11 was, and rather forget or play the blame-game.

It happened, it was awful, and it's VERY difficult to stop a sucide bomber/pilot intent in their mission. To say Bush let it happen is like saying FDR planned Pearl Harbor, or Lincoln planned the Civil War.

You can't base your facts off of secondary sources (newspapers, broadcasts, etc.). Any historian or researcher worth their salt knows that. You need primary sources (actual documents, interviews, etc.) from the folks involved or that were there.

Shields are up for the inevitable liberal attack..........

 

[Moff Jerjerrod]

Well stated Mano3. We were definately unprepared, there is no doubt there.


I won't totally discount ALL conspiracy theories because as long as there is evil in men's hearts anything is possible. I like to think that one must always prepare/think about the unexpected.

 

[Mano3]

Originally posted by Moff Jerjerrod
...because as long as there is evil in men's hearts anything is possible. I like to think that one must always prepare/think about the unexpected.

So true Moff. It's amazing how many people refuse to believe that evil does not exist. Take Saddam for example. Even though the world is a better place without him (no rape rooms, torture chambers, etc.), some folks still have to chastise America for going to war. If our INTEL was bad, then heads need to roll, but people have to realize that our military leaders and the President have to go off of what their advisors reccomend.

History is a good tool, but unfortunately, it's always after the fact.

 

[hawai_74]

Originally posted by Earthpig95
Sims,
3. The air space over the Pentagon is not secure air space,
Earthpig

i doubt that the air space over the Pentagon is not secured. Usually this is one of the first place secured

 

[Mano3]

Originally posted by Drewcifer
I believe that defending domestic airspace is the responsibility of the Air Guard (the aviation equivilent to the National Guard) not the Airforce.

You are absolutely 100% correct. In fact, the fighter based around DC belong the ANG.

 

[Earthpig95]

Take a trip to Washington DC and land at National Airport and tell me the same thing. The planes leaving National Airport fly over it all the time, it's why National was the last airport in the country to reopen after 9/11. DC is supposed to have secured air space, but DC is on the other side of the river. The Pentagon is in Virginia, and while they have SAMs on humvees there now, they didn't on 9-11.

Earthpig

 

[Padma]

The airspace over the Pentagon was most certainly NOT "Secure airspace"! I'm sorry, but all that is there is *people*. (No disrespect intended. I knew some of the Penatgon victims. ) An attack there causes, at worst, loss of lives. There are other, secure locations from which the Pentagon's functions can be continued, and other people who are trained to do them.

Heck, when I was working as a nuclear maintenance officer, we had Red Chinese airliners fly over our maintenance area at least once a week! We were in the flight path for the local airport. We just buttoned everything up until they were gone....

IMO, this thread should have been moved to the Humor & Jokes forum. No way can any reasonable person take it seriously....

 

[Mano3]

Way to Go Padma!!!!

 

[aaminion00]

When I was around 13 and just starting to get into politics I saw a conspiracy site talking about this. They started coming up with all sorts of bull****, just like Shiplord Avatar's first post, except dead serious. I was so gullible then I actually for it. Looking back on it, if you actually believe any such things you really have to stop and re-evaluate your political stance.

 

[ShiplordAtvar]

Problem is aaminion00, there are those in positions of prominence in our society who lend credence to such conspiracy theories.

 

[Sims2789]

they still should have made somewhat of an effort to shoot down the plane.

 

[Drewcifer]

Originally posted by sims2789
they still should have made somewhat of an effort to shoot down the plane.

Oh, give it a fricken rest. It was a situation that the country was unprepared for. Your bigotries and your delusional paranoid thoughts are giving us leftists a bad name! Argue based on reality, you don't have to create phantasmagoric straw men!

 

[Mano3]

Originally posted by sims2789
they still should have made somewhat of an effort to shoot down the plane.

Again, where would the wreckage fall when we shot it down?

 

[Speedo]

they still should have made somewhat of an effort to shoot down the plane.

You apparently don't have any idea of what that requires...

Real life isn't a video game where everything pops up on the screen any you just push a button.

On the radar display of a F-15/16 EVERY civilian aircraft looks the same. Surely you're not saying they should shoot at random and hope they hit the right one eventually? To identify a specific airliner would require closing to visual range, in this case probably within 2 nm to pick out the details of a specific aircraft's markings. Even at 600 knots that takes time. (I don't believe mililtary aircraft are allowed to break mach 1 over most populated areas of CONUS) That is exactly what they were attempting to do when the flight went down in Penn.

 

[Sinapus]

Originally posted by Speedo


You apparently don't have any idea of what that requires...

Real life isn't a video game where everything pops up on the screen any you just push a button.

On the radar display of a F-15/16 EVERY civilian aircraft looks the same. Surely you're not saying they should shoot at random and hope they hit the right one eventually? To identify a specific airliner would require closing to visual range, in this case probably within 2 nm to pick out the details of a specific aircraft's markings. Even at 600 knots that takes time. (I don't believe mililtary aircraft are allowed to break mach 1 over most populated areas of CONUS) That is exactly what they were attempting to do when the flight went down in Penn.

There you go, being unfair and dragging reality into the discussion. Sheesh.

 

[Ohwell]

Originally posted by sims2789
-

I dont know, ask god.

Moderator Action: Nice edit, but a bit too late. You've got your wish. Ban for spamming and flaming, length to be determined by your freiendly OT mods.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[aaminion00]

Originally posted by Mano3


Again, where would the wreckage fall when we shot it down?

Exactly. The only plane that wouldn't have crashed into another skyscraper and killed just as many people was the one in Pennyslvania, and jets were scrambled to that one. They didn't get to shoot it down though... we all know what happened.

 

[Sims2789]

Originally posted by Speedo


1)You apparently don't have any idea of what that requires...

Real life isn't a video game where everything pops up on the screen any you just push a button.

2)On the radar display of a F-15/16 EVERY civilian aircraft looks the same. Surely you're not saying they should shoot at random and hope they hit the right one eventually? To identify a specific airliner would require closing to visual range, in this case probably within 2 nm to pick out the details of a specific aircraft's markings. Even at 600 knots that takes time. (I don't believe mililtary aircraft are allowed to break mach 1 over most populated areas of CONUS) That is exactly what they were attempting to do when the flight went down in Penn.

1)they're pilots for crying out loud! it's their freakin' job to shoot down planes.

2)they still have eyes(those white balls with the colored ring and black dod in the middle at the front of our heads) that can tell the difference between a crop duster and a Boeing 747 or whatever the heck it was. if they circled the WTC, they could have shot down the planes(at least the second one but probably the first one to) just by thinking, "hmm, one plane already crashed into the other tower, so the one heading for tower #2 is probably going to ram it, so i'm gonna shoot it down." yes it would have landed on another skyscraper but there wern't as many people in the other ones as there were in the twin towers.

 

[Speedo]

Sims, let me introduce you to a few more concepts borne in reality:

1. Distance(a). It takes time to cover it. 15 min is NOT enough time to get aircraft off the ground and in position to intercept. Until the MOMENT that the first tower was hit, there was NO REASON to suspect anything wrong.

2. Distance(b). Your Mk1 Eyeball can not see details over a long distance. To acurately identify an airliner requires being CLOSE, and that means within 1-2 miles. Refer to (1) above and (3) below.

3. Massive Air Transportation. There are literally DOZENS of any given aircraft around major center like NY or DC. 747s, 777s, 737s, 727s, Airbus, DeHavilland? Probably at least 5-6 of each. The only visible difference between them being paint. Refer to point (2) above.