Wich are the best wonders?

A good time to build Shake's Theatre:

I had a game on Monarch level where my capital was near some great food squares. Like any good despot, this city was used extensively to rush-build with its hapless citizens.

I never realized the disatrous effects this would have later on.

This dang city - my CAPITAL - was so rife with unhappiness that it was only able to reach size 16 and this only if HALF of the population were entertainers. And with ALL of the happiness wonders and 5 luxuries coming in as well. Again, this was my capital, and I bemoaned my loss of uncorrupted production and commerce.

Worse, I had a Great Leader sittin' around and could have rushed the Theatre there. I saved it for a later wonder, but had I known what was going to happen I may have chosen otherwise.

Shake's can really help a very unhappy city that was used as a citizen factory early in the game!
 
The Great Library. I'm a sucker for the Great Library.

A lot of experiences players think the Great Library is overrated. It's not, by any means. Here's why:

1. Look at it this way: Darwin's Voyage is worth 2 free techs. The Great Library can be worth ~40 free techs. With it built, you can set your science to 0% until it expires, concentrating on revenue, luxuries, military, building your empire -- whatever you want. By the time it expires you'll be right up there with everyone technologically but miles ahead in whatever you spent all that commerce for instead. :D

2. The Library is REQUIRED on Deity level, unless you're doing some sort of early military rush strategy (ie, Jaguar Warriors, Mounted Horsemen, etc). I've beaten the game through Emperor level, but Deity is hopeless. With extreme luck at the goody huts, your research can stay on par with the AI for maybe 2 advances -- after that, you'll be so far behind it's not even funny. :sad: The Great Library is a must. The only problem is I haven't been able to build it first in the 10 or so games I've tried...
 
Best Wonders are the Colossus cobined with research doubling structures (copernicus etc), pyramids for a huge growth rate increase. Art of War and Leo's work shop make a great combo too, morale enchaning wonders like the sistine and Bachs are also awesome but they all pale in comparison to the mighty UN.
 
Hands down Sun Tzu's is the only universally useful, unless your map consides of 3x3 islands. Free barracks, no need to dance around units for upgrading. Those always crappy edge cities are now instant waypoints for healing. Indestructable barracks is also an important trait, with 5-6 good defenders and this, the AI is unable to even gather the intelligence to get enough units to take the city. This goes for any barracks, but with the Sun Tzu, it can't be destroyed. For any conquest type it is one facet that will lead to victory. Every town you take becomes a untakable fortress the instant you own it.

The other free improvement wonders are good like hoovers and the pyramids, but the later is only good for rushing. For the rest of your cities it will just cause problems, too much growth.

I actually consider hoovers pretty worthless. In most all of my games I have maybe 2-5 good cities counting my capital, the rest are all 2-3 or 1 shield production, power plants do noting for them. So in my calculations, you spend 800-1000 shields on the wonder, and you gain 5 * (shield cost of solar or hydro). Also you get them maintence free, so 5 extra gold a turn. However you could easily build the power plants before you would build the wonder in one city. So overall I think its a miss. I've gotten it a few times, and its biggest value seems to be that all cities get it, not just ones by rivers. So if you are scarce on rivers and do have a nice city with one, try it and you will get a good power plant for free.
With the forbidden palace on the same continent, you get 8-10 good cities (maybe). Chances are however that all the land around your capital and forbidden isn't all sweet grassland and ore filled mountains, so in the palace radius I can usually get 2 or 3 good production cities.

And from that, smith's trading is also largely useless, since it will take you many years to build those maintence free trading improvements. Airports, banks and harbors are reserved for my production cities, its a waste of production and hundreds of years to even bother with these in the low shield cities. (Unless you do what I do most times, set the largest potentially useful item and then forget that 1 shield city for a hundred turns.)

Sistine chapel suffers from the same problem, after a hunded years you may get that cathedral, nice for culture, but luxuries don't have any maintence, and cost nothing to ship and transport.

Bachs is number 2 on my list, 2 faces in all your cities, simple. Great for those conquered towns without a marketplace.


The whole colossus tech city is a nice dream, I've never come close to getting it in any game. The higher difficulty games you won't be so lucky to get them all. And the low diff games I never get to modern times and most times not even industry. The best I've ever done was a city with like 4 gold mines, and I got copers and newtons. Was sweet, but not worth spending to much time on.

Evolution is pretty lame, you can't control directly what techs you get so you have to go back and fill in the tree in the hopes that you will get one that might actually be worth it. I often ignore republic and monarcy, and by the time this is around I could get both those in 4 turns with tech at 10%. So what happens is that you end up buying those techs and others so that it has to pick current ages ones, big pain in the ass and a waste of money. Not to mention production time, only do it when I am far far ahead in tech and have a spare good production city which isn't likely.

Suffrage is good maybe, getting the civs to declare war on you is better. Suffrage and getting the civs to declare nullifies WW.

Heroic small wonder is a waste of a early culture wonder. Pentagon, military academy worthless. Armys are worthless. Wars are won by numbers and numbers of attacks, you get 1/3 the attacks and 3 times longer fight leading to death. If they would keep the number of attacks based on the units joined, THEN I might try them again.

Intelligence agency is very good, if only to plant a spy and then see the civs militarys. Big big help in a game of conquest or not. The other spy options I have yet to use much, except for the military plans. The rest seem useless and often fail, not to mention the large cost. And why is it that espionage wasn't invented until the industry age? Come on...

Another one, the best, even better than forbidden is Ironworks. As soon as you get coal, see if any coal showed up withing the 5 squares radius a city can reach. If so, take out whatever may be there and get a city there ASAP. Round up some leaders and hope you haven't used forbidden palace yet, however if you have move your capital, you won't be sorry. Capital or forbidden, power plant, manufacturing plant, ironworks, it boogles the mind.


The small wonders are far more useful, hence the fact that all civs can build them, use that as your guide and avoid the waste of shield "big" wonders.
 
Universal Suffrage bites ass! It didn't help my various wars as a democracy at all, my cities still all revolted the instant I declared war. A better strategy is to play a religious civ and switch to Communism as soon as war breaks out.
Also the Great Library is still great but sometimes it's extremely hard to beat the other civs to it unless they are all at war. Don't trade Literature, give yourself the edge!
 
Originally posted by Smirk


Heroic small wonder is a waste of a early culture wonder. Pentagon, military academy worthless. Armys are worthless. Wars are won by numbers and numbers of attacks, you get 1/3 the attacks and 3 times longer fight leading to death. If they would keep the number of attacks based on the units joined, THEN I might try them again.


I completely disagree. If you are playing with a militaristic civ, the Heroic Epic is a must. After building this, your chances of getting a great leader are really good every time you win a battle with an elite unit. In my current game, I have been able to rush build every wonder in the industrial era because everytime someone lands a stack of units on my continent, I attack with five or six elite cavalry and I get a leader. Plus, if you manage to build the heroic epic early enough, it generates huge amounts of culture. Armies are very useful for attacking until tanks, and after that you should see the AI try to take out an army of infantry fortified on a mountain in their territory. The fact that a military academy allows you to build your own armies should not be overlooked. If you send three or four armies of defensive units with your invasion force, the AI might as well just surrender. The Pentagon just makes these armies stronger, even though they are already almost invincible on defense. Finally, the AI wins wars with overwhelming numbers, a human player can use strategy, and a good strategy will include armies if they are available.
 
I never have a problem getting leaders. Using elite units and getting a few of them victories during 1 turn is all it takes. I often get more than 1 leader a turn if I spend it quickly in a nearby city.

To say that you have a better chance it likely true since thats what the wonder does, but armies are worthless. A likely scenario is to load it with 2 attack units and one defense (thats mostly what the AI will do with its armies) if you do that it stands a chance if attacked, but the army now moves at the slowest units speed, which is 1 up till mech infantry. You can't upgrade any units in an army, and they lose 2/3rds of their attacks, from 3 to 1.

So they are slow and won't ever make it to the front in offensives, since my cavalry, tanks, armor are all faster. The could pose an obstacle defending a city, but the AI will then avoid that city. I never worry about stacking defense units on an offensive since if I get attacked then thats less units defending in the city so the city is then easier to take, putting great defenders on your attack units will deter the AI from wasting their own units on an attack.

Also armies do not benefit from a barracks the same way units do, a damaged unit will heal totally in one turn not moving, armies do not. So if my 3 infantry stay alive thru an attack they will be completely healed the next turn the army will *not*. I don't know if thats a bug or what but it sure does suck.
 
best wonders in civ2 were in my mind.

1. Great Lib
2. Michealangelos (Sistine) Chapel
3. Adam Smith

now all three of these are not as good.
best wonders in civ3 are i think

1. UN
(more of a nessesity than a 'best wonder' but if you don't get it you lose so kinda needy)
2. Great Lighthouse
(map dependant but most need it)
3. Pyramids
(all that whipping means pyramids = double production).

Sun Tzu's is pretty good too but civs can whip in a barracks for only 1 pop if they need too.

basically all the late game wonders (longevity, hoover dam etc...) come far too late to make a difference against the computer. you should be in a comfortable posistion to win at the end of the middle ages. the only exception is the UN which can instantly knock you out so try and win before then.

can't wait for multi-player....

-ChumChum
 
Current favourites are the Pyramids, the Great Lighthouse (depending on the map type) and Smith. You need a helping hand keeping ur people happy on high difficulty levels once u have built the pyramids.
 
You can't beat building Copernicus' Observatory and Newton's College in your capital city! How much science is that?!! :crazyeyes
 
I love Library...Greece seems able to get it fast. I finally got it up and running (the other civs went other tech paths) and...nothing. Oops, no contact with other civs!

Luckily Japan set up one base on my continent I beat up Rome on. Trade World Map for contacts, repeat with the contacted civ, and there we go: 4 Ancient techs simultaneously! Before it became obsolete I got 2 Medieval techs too.

As for the UN: Same game, I built lots of Wonders for Culture Win. Set all other civs on nasty, warlike England by trading old techs. UN gives culture too, so I thought why not? So as I was busy building spacecraft parts and nukes, a pop-up asks me: Hold election for UN Secretary General? Okay...sure...

I win. What the!
 
My personal wonder list at my current difficulty level (Regent):

Ancient:

1) Great Library. At regent, it is still possible for the human to get, and this helps soooo much. Even though it expires at Education, I just simply don't research in that direction, or if I do, I stop at Monotheism (or Theology). I tend to go straight for Cav, which means that I'll usually end up getting most of the ancient techs and a fair number of middle age techs with this.

2) Pyramids. Great expansion tool, though it does hamper one of your good-production cities for a while. I often don't get it, but it's not a huge loss, since unhappiness is such a great problem in the early game that fast population growth is actually kind of annoying. Still, pyramids really helps out the settler/worker farms...

3) Oracle/Hanging Gardens. I usually have a temple in every city, and anything that helps with unhappiness civ-wide is valuable.

Variable: Great Lighthouse is very valuable if you start on an island. Collosus is very nice if you have a good producing coastal city.

Sucky: Great Wall. Provides marginal benefit in uncommon situations...


Middle Age:

1st tier: Sistine/JS Bach. Again, unhappiness is usually a problem, and even if it isn't (i.e. you have a fair number of luxuries), these two wonders will push you towards the wonderful WLTKD, which REALLY helps with corruption. These two are also very nice if you're a democracy waging war... Because these two often let your citizens work (instead of entertaining), the production bonus is awesome...

2nd tier: Sun Tzu's/Copernicus/Newton's/Leo's. Sun Tzu's and Leo's (borderline) are definitely first tier if you are a warmonger on a big continent. Copernicus and Newton are really only useful if you have one or two high commerce cities.

3rd tier: Adam Smith's. Gives you a nice commerce savings, although this doesn't really kick in until industrial (because most of your towns will only have a marketplace in feudal or maybe not even that).

The rest: Shakespeare and Magellan. One applies to one city, the other 1 movement... Whoop di doo...


Industrial Age:

1) United Nations. Must have to prevent loss by diplomacy.

2nd tier: All of them, though variable. Hoover Dam is great if you have a fair number of river cities (effects don't apply unless your city is on a river, though the icon still shows up). Universal Suffrage is good if you're a democracy that likes surgical wars (even this won't help if you like long wars...). Theory of Evolution has the possibility of giving you an insurmountable tech lead (if you backtrade before you get it)

Modern Age:

1) Cure for Cancer. Modern age wonders aren't that great, but this is best among the mediocore. With huge cities come huge unhappiness; this helps, a little.

2) SETI. Again, if you have a good commerce city, this can help you get to the end quicker.

3rd tier: Longevity, Manhattan. Why longevity, when all of your cities are probably maxed out at population anyway? Manhattan, just let the computer build it, since you get the benefit no matter what. The exception is if you have a huge tech lead and want to finish with a radioactive bang. Though if this is true, you've won already...

- Windwalker
 
I forget, but how does the Great Library determine which two civs you get free tech from? In Civ 2, sometimes you'd get it from two civs that were quite backward, right?
 
It is not 2 civs it is a tecnology that at least 2 civs have

Smirk Armies with 2 attackers and one defencive come on quit being a idiot you can have a army of cavalry and I often take out infantry leaving the other units exposed. Tank armies are nearly invinible unless it exposed with about 10 tanks attacking it
 
Originally posted by cegman
It is not 2 civs it is a tecnology that at least 2 civs have

Smirk Armies with 2 attackers and one defencive come on quit being a idiot you can have a army of cavalry and I often take out infantry leaving the other units exposed. Tank armies are nearly invinible unless it exposed with about 10 tanks attacking it

Hmm... Tank armies are still pretty vulnerable to other tanks (they can go down to 3-4 attacking tanks)... Do you mean Modern Armor or Mech Infantry armies? If so, that would make more sense....

- Windwalker
 
Forbidden Palace is the new "killer app".
You should plan for it however ...
Pick out a nearby Civ with a a good block (5 or 6) of closely spaced rich cities. Conquer them and place the FP in the central city. Since it is a small wonder you can build it without worrying about the AI getting it first. One problem is getting the new corrupt city to build it at 1 shield per turn. I solve this by keeping a leader ready for this to rush it. This is easily the best use of a leader in the whole game. In one turn you convert 4 - 6 deadweight cities into a second empire. It's a game winner
 
Originally posted by eyrei


>>If you are playing with a militaristic civ, the Heroic Epic is a must. After building this, your chances of getting a great leader are really good every time you win a battle with an elite unit.

I agree with you that heoric epic is great for getting leaders to rush wonders. I don't agree that armies are useful.

>>Armies are very useful for attacking until tanks,

Not true. Armies just allow your attackers to survive failed attacks. You should be attacking with mounted anyway who already have this advantage. Plus you get less attacks.

>> and after that you should see the AI try to take out an army of infantry fortified on a mountain in their territory. The fact that a military academy allows you to build your own armies should not be overlooked<<

You have not worked out the numbers properly. let's take a stack of 3 vet. infantry versus an army of the same. You are in enemy territory and the AI attacks with waves of units. Your army can lose 11 (3 *4 - 1) hit points before it dies. Your ordinary stack can lose 9 Hps before it loses its 1st unit, 10 hps to lose its second unit and only dies when the 11th Hp is gone. The army offers only a tiny dvantage and costs a fortune.

Armies would only be useful if the old Civ rule that a stack died when one unit died, still operated.
 
Ohh baby! Just one free tech? No way!

Great Library gives you ANY TECH that is known to at least 2 civs! It doesn;t matter when the techs were researched or how the civs got them.

I rushed to Literature, neglecting other research, and buitl the G.Library. Then I bought contact with as many civs as I could with my very useless and small World Map. I was ssimultaneously rewarded with EVERY Ancient tech apart from Currency, Republic, Construction and the techs I had (Masonry, Alphabet, Writing, Literature, Philosophy, Ceremonial Burial). After a bit, free Construction! Middle Ages brought more free techs formn the war side as I went for Education (for the Wonders).

Basically, if any civs trade a tech, you just learnt it babaaayy! i.e. Rome trades with Egypt, Steel Working for Mathematics. This means that now there are 2 civs that know those techs. Did I say two, I mean three, since Great Library learns those techs for you! Maybe not THE best GW, but one of the most satisfying...Like Christmas Day with lots of rich relatives, and you're the only kid for miles.
 
Originally posted by brianboru
Originally posted by eyrei


>>Armies are very useful for attacking until tanks,


You have not worked out the numbers properly. let's take a stack of 3 vet. infantry versus an army of the same. You are in enemy territory and the AI attacks with waves of units. Your army can lose 11 (3 *4 - 1) hit points before it dies. Your ordinary stack can lose 9 Hps before it loses its 1st unit, 10 hps to lose its second unit and only dies when the 11th Hp is gone. The army offers only a tiny dvantage and costs a fortune.

Armies would only be useful if the old Civ rule that a stack died when one unit died, still operated.

In your example, while you lost 2 infantry, and the third one barely survived, I lost no units.:D The additional value of an army is that the AI will not attack it unless it is in the red.
 
Back
Top Bottom