GerrardCapashen
Benalish Master-at-Arms
I usually build the Great Library, the Sistine Chapel, the Theory of Evolution, Hoover Dam, and the United Nations in my games. These are my favorite wonders and I feel they are the most beneficial.
Wich are the best wonders?
- Thread starter AugustoD
- Start date
LionQ
Noble
It's hard to find Wonders of the World from which I would say I don't think they're important. I usually try to build every Wonder, but the most important are imo:
- Sun Tzu's Art of War
- Adam Smith's Trading Company
- Sistine Chapel
- J.S. Bach's Cathedral
- Sun Tzu's Art of War
- Adam Smith's Trading Company
- Sistine Chapel
- J.S. Bach's Cathedral
InfStack_
Chieftain
I agree the UN is too Powerful. I just turn it off now in the victory conditions. I think that Sistine Chapel, Bach and Women's Sufferage are key. Late game Seti Program is interesting as it gives culture points to cities that you would never build a Research Lab in. Sun Tzu gives you warmongers a leg up. I always like to build Smith's Trading company and Hoover Dam too.
Gregski
Mostly Harmless
Must have:
Mike's Chapel
Hoover dam
UN - By the time I build it nobody has any respect for me.
Nice to have:
Shakespeare's Theatre - 8 culture points helps my second city to enter the top 5.
Pyramids - Best to capture this one later on.
Leo's workshop - As pyramids.
Sun Tzu - The one main reason I won GOTM 7, as I could quickly move my quickly regenerating troops.
Colossus - I have an unexplainable fondness for that wonder. Good for the capital.
Mike's Chapel
Hoover dam
UN - By the time I build it nobody has any respect for me.
Nice to have:
Shakespeare's Theatre - 8 culture points helps my second city to enter the top 5.
Pyramids - Best to capture this one later on.
Leo's workshop - As pyramids.
Sun Tzu - The one main reason I won GOTM 7, as I could quickly move my quickly regenerating troops.
Colossus - I have an unexplainable fondness for that wonder. Good for the capital.
LionQ
Noble
I agree to that the UN is too powerfull. I have won that way one time and I did not like it, so now I just turn DiplomaticVictory off when I boot a new game.
my list for the best "MUST HAVE" wonders:
---these are only listed in order by time eras not by importance.--
First is the Pyramids:
this allows for quick growth, saves money, and definitely needed to allow your civilization to quickly populate the land.
Second is Leonardos Workshop:
when WAR gets really serious or if you're planning to goto WAR then this will save you thousands of dollars... at least it does for me.
Third is Sistine Chapel:
doubling the effects of cathedrals is HUGE! Size 12 cities rarely have unhappy people... thus giving "we love the King day". Cathedrals are definitely worthwhile to build for any big city after landing this wonder.
Fourth is the Smiths Trading Company:
again this saves big bucks... saves so much money you can usually increase science by 10%.... sometimes 20%. Plus you feel safe building banks and other commercial buildings in any town.... because they're now FREE.
Finally Fifth is the Hoover Dam:
the increase in production for "ALL your towns" with river squares is a bonus far tooooo great to ignore. Landing this wonder will help secure whatever game victory you are shooting for.
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Finally a quick side-note..... the great wall still sucks... more now then before in Civ_2. Also the Great Library use to be the best.... yet the developers weakened it. You'll be really lucky to snatch 2 or 3 techs before the Great Library dies. If I remember the Great Library use to last until Electricity.
small wonders not listed since anyone can build those.
---these are only listed in order by time eras not by importance.--
First is the Pyramids:
this allows for quick growth, saves money, and definitely needed to allow your civilization to quickly populate the land.
Second is Leonardos Workshop:
when WAR gets really serious or if you're planning to goto WAR then this will save you thousands of dollars... at least it does for me.
Third is Sistine Chapel:
doubling the effects of cathedrals is HUGE! Size 12 cities rarely have unhappy people... thus giving "we love the King day". Cathedrals are definitely worthwhile to build for any big city after landing this wonder.
Fourth is the Smiths Trading Company:
again this saves big bucks... saves so much money you can usually increase science by 10%.... sometimes 20%. Plus you feel safe building banks and other commercial buildings in any town.... because they're now FREE.
Finally Fifth is the Hoover Dam:
the increase in production for "ALL your towns" with river squares is a bonus far tooooo great to ignore. Landing this wonder will help secure whatever game victory you are shooting for.
---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
Finally a quick side-note..... the great wall still sucks... more now then before in Civ_2. Also the Great Library use to be the best.... yet the developers weakened it. You'll be really lucky to snatch 2 or 3 techs before the Great Library dies. If I remember the Great Library use to last until Electricity.
small wonders not listed since anyone can build those.
LionQ
Noble
You're right about The Pyramids. I forgot them on my own list, but they do really belong on there. You're cities are growing twice as fast, so you can make more Settlers, so you can expand (much) faster.
Leonardo da Vinci's Workshop is not that important for me, because I'm having another strategy then most players. If war gets serious the half price of upgrading can be a (big) advantage in the battles, but my strategy is to send the "old" Units into battle and build their successors in the cities. Since I'm having a huge productivity, this strategy works excellent.
The Sistine Chapel might be the most important for me. Doubles the effect of every Cathedral!
You'll get SIX Content Faces!!!
Smith's Trading Company is also very important for me, because I build a MarketPlace and a Bank in every city (and a Harbor in every coastal city). So the Company is saving really much money then. And... if you'll discover Flight, well: FREE Airports!!! 
The HooverDam is also very important imo. In every city, it doesn't matter if it's bordering a river, a HydroPlant. That's meaning a really HUGE productivity increase when you build a Factory!!!
Leonardo da Vinci's Workshop is not that important for me, because I'm having another strategy then most players. If war gets serious the half price of upgrading can be a (big) advantage in the battles, but my strategy is to send the "old" Units into battle and build their successors in the cities. Since I'm having a huge productivity, this strategy works excellent.
The Sistine Chapel might be the most important for me. Doubles the effect of every Cathedral!
You'll get SIX Content Faces!!! Smith's Trading Company is also very important for me, because I build a MarketPlace and a Bank in every city (and a Harbor in every coastal city). So the Company is saving really much money then. And... if you'll discover Flight, well: FREE Airports!!!
The HooverDam is also very important imo. In every city, it doesn't matter if it's bordering a river, a HydroPlant. That's meaning a really HUGE productivity increase when you build a Factory!!!
Personally, I think the Great Library is overrated. It only has value when you're behind in science, which I almost never am. It's more important to be in the science lead, not just keep up.
For conquest and domination victories, the biggest essential is the Great Lighthouse. Nothing worse than seeing yourself halted due to the fact that you can't reach unconquered continents, which frequently otherwise happens. The Great Lighthouse essentially gives you Caravels with one less transport capacity, meaning I can put off researching Astronomy and focus on getting to Cavalries long before my opponents, almost guaranteeing victory.
For peaceful strategies, I find that the two of the most essential are (ironically) Sun-Tzu's and Leo's Workshop, in order to keep a powerful military and helping keep things peaceful!
Other essentials for peaceful victories are the science related wonders (except the GL), Adam Smith's, Hoover Dam and Bach's Cathedral.
As far as UN goes, I've never suffered for not building it, whenever election comes up, I just don't run, game goes on as usual. Am I missing something?
By far the most useless is the Great Wall. Walls themselves are useless, I never build them. Thus the Great Wall becomes even more useless.
For conquest and domination victories, the biggest essential is the Great Lighthouse. Nothing worse than seeing yourself halted due to the fact that you can't reach unconquered continents, which frequently otherwise happens. The Great Lighthouse essentially gives you Caravels with one less transport capacity, meaning I can put off researching Astronomy and focus on getting to Cavalries long before my opponents, almost guaranteeing victory.
For peaceful strategies, I find that the two of the most essential are (ironically) Sun-Tzu's and Leo's Workshop, in order to keep a powerful military and helping keep things peaceful!
Other essentials for peaceful victories are the science related wonders (except the GL), Adam Smith's, Hoover Dam and Bach's Cathedral.
As far as UN goes, I've never suffered for not building it, whenever election comes up, I just don't run, game goes on as usual. Am I missing something?
By far the most useless is the Great Wall. Walls themselves are useless, I never build them. Thus the Great Wall becomes even more useless.
RainyCloud
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2002
- Messages
- 7
Best Wonder = Great library to me.
One thing for a fact is that you simple cannot get the tech lead in deity level before the 2nd half of medieval era, and after that you may only get a tech lead if you are very well developed.
In the current game I'm playing (huge map, deity), my whole strategy was even based on GL. I chose Carthage just so I can have Alphabet right at the start, so I would spend no more than 80 turns before Literature get researched. Actually I got Literature after about 60 turns, since one of the goodie hut gave me Writing while I was half way through the research of it. My research has always been at 10% till now, and once I started the construction of GL, I halt my research - keep it simple and stupid. Total research cost up to now: ~80 gold.
When my Great Library gets done, I immediately have all the tech exist on the planet, and a coffer 10 times larger than the TOTAL of rest of the civs. And that's not the end of it. Every time I "receive" a new tech, I trade it out for more profits to those nations that don't have it yet, and they all loved me for it. Eventually I switched to monarchy with around 2,400 gold, and the Chaos started. With all the gold and a steady income due to ZERO research, I could rush produce those cheap Ancient military units like no tomorrow, and destroyed India and half of Spain even before knights get invented. Sure my library expired a little later on, but those wars give me the solid lead in both territory, income, and luxuries. My score jumped from the 16th to the 2nd in the world (just behind Babylon, but they get all their score from culture). Not to mention I own almost all great wonders ever since my war started due to the great leaders produced. Currently, I conquered America, and took control of the Pyramid too. The cavalry just got invented, and my next step will be conquering both England and Iroquis on two different fronts, as I now have the capability to produce two strong army divisions at the same time - one around my capital, and one around my forbidden palace.
Early game is all that matters.
One thing for a fact is that you simple cannot get the tech lead in deity level before the 2nd half of medieval era, and after that you may only get a tech lead if you are very well developed.
In the current game I'm playing (huge map, deity), my whole strategy was even based on GL. I chose Carthage just so I can have Alphabet right at the start, so I would spend no more than 80 turns before Literature get researched. Actually I got Literature after about 60 turns, since one of the goodie hut gave me Writing while I was half way through the research of it. My research has always been at 10% till now, and once I started the construction of GL, I halt my research - keep it simple and stupid. Total research cost up to now: ~80 gold.
When my Great Library gets done, I immediately have all the tech exist on the planet, and a coffer 10 times larger than the TOTAL of rest of the civs. And that's not the end of it. Every time I "receive" a new tech, I trade it out for more profits to those nations that don't have it yet, and they all loved me for it. Eventually I switched to monarchy with around 2,400 gold, and the Chaos started. With all the gold and a steady income due to ZERO research, I could rush produce those cheap Ancient military units like no tomorrow, and destroyed India and half of Spain even before knights get invented. Sure my library expired a little later on, but those wars give me the solid lead in both territory, income, and luxuries. My score jumped from the 16th to the 2nd in the world (just behind Babylon, but they get all their score from culture). Not to mention I own almost all great wonders ever since my war started due to the great leaders produced. Currently, I conquered America, and took control of the Pyramid too. The cavalry just got invented, and my next step will be conquering both England and Iroquis on two different fronts, as I now have the capability to produce two strong army divisions at the same time - one around my capital, and one around my forbidden palace.
Early game is all that matters.
hbdragon88
haunted by blackness
Classed from #1 on from every age...
Ancient Age: Pyramids, Great Library, Collosus, Oracle, Hanging Gardens, Great Lighthouse, Great Wall
Middle Age: Sun Tzu's, Leandaro's, Sistine, Magellan's, JS Bach's, Shakespare, Smith's, Copernicous's, Newton's
Industrial: Suffrage, ToE, Hoover
Moder: UN, SETI, Longevity, and Cure for Cancer
Ancient Age: Pyramids, Great Library, Collosus, Oracle, Hanging Gardens, Great Lighthouse, Great Wall
Middle Age: Sun Tzu's, Leandaro's, Sistine, Magellan's, JS Bach's, Shakespare, Smith's, Copernicous's, Newton's
Industrial: Suffrage, ToE, Hoover
Moder: UN, SETI, Longevity, and Cure for Cancer
LionQ
Noble
Personally, I'm thinking you're right. Most of the time I build the GreatLibrary, but that's not because I'm backwards with Technologies, but for the Culture and for the reason that if I'm the one who builds it, the AI can't anymore.
Well, I'm most of the time playing on Pangaea and then is the Lighthouse decreased in importancy. Because he is getting obsolete with Magnetism, I rather concentrate myself on Magellan's Voyage.
Disagree. It are very militaristic Wonder, imo.
Agree. Already explained why in earlier posts.
Very agree.
LionQ
Noble
Excellent strategy for DeityLevel. But on Warlord technological lead is not that difficult, so...
I try to build them all, but the most important is Hoover Dam. On harder difficulty levels, playing either the Germans or Babylonians (non-Industrial civs) the AI tends to beat me to building the early must have wonders (Pyramids, Sistine Chapel, J.S. Bach, etc.) so I usually just wait and build up my military. Once I get Calvary, I attack and capture the enemy cities that have those wonders first. That way, I get them free! But Hoover Dam is too important to a warmonger like myself and I always try to build it ASAP. Since I switch to Republic and then Democracy and stay a Democracy throughout my wars (Having all City Governors control moods is key), any happiness Wonders are also important. But in the end, the ability to produce massive, technologically advance troops wins the day.
LionQ
Noble
anu: :big grin:
Singularity
Infinite Density
I would like to chip in my 2 cents on wonders.
First of all, I've evolved from a preset stratagem player to a conditional opporunist. I used to categorize wonders and build them regulary like clockwork - alas this is no longer the case.
If I'm military I would throw in all but my kitchen sink to get Sun Tzu, Leonardo and Suffrage. The ability to keep your military machine lean and mean at a low cost both happiness(war weariness) and economically is first priority. Getting that instant barrax in a newly occupied city does wonder for my wounded units, and if a unit has been obsolete I just press shift-U for half the prize effectively in every city.
Pyramids is tricky. There is no way you can underestimate this wonder on a continent with room for 30 + cities(not ICS style). But getting this baby means sweating greatly at an early era when you should be competing to grab your fare share in the settlement race. If my capitol or second city has a geography that allmost hands out the Pyramids with cattle/game and forests it's perhaps worth rushing to get it with all means available(populating with workers and rushing temple). More often than not you will not have this luxury at Deity/Emperor level. So I find this wonder to be both connected to terrain possibilities and diff. settings. If you're on a large continent the odds are also higher that you can capture it from your neighbours at a later stage.
The hoover dam is just as vital to your game as Pyramids IMO. At the right continent size this little gem will turn your core cities into a Rhine area. Just make sure that you have workers to clean up that pollution that will blanket your lands in the next rounds. This is why you should rush to industri in good time so that your factories are up and running in the core cities once The Dam is finished.
Great library and Science City wonders(Collossus, Copernicus, Newton and SETI) are nice for that tech manipulating strategy. I would rate theese wonders along with the religious/happiness wonders. Not very critical. But very nice still.
All the happiness oriented wonders(beside oracle) are in the category as 'very nice'. Not critical since luxuries trade and luxuries tax can counter theese wonders. Oracle and The Great Wall are both the least usefull wonders both because of limited effect for skilled players and the sickening short time it takes before they're both obsolete. Bachs Cathedral is the exception here on large continents - great to counter that middleage war weariness.
Lighthouse and Maggelan's are both way down on the list. The same goes for Theory of Evolution. Nice little wonders in the right setting. Twin continents on large/huge map, and critical science race in modern times versus an evenly matched oponent makes them urgent to have. Adam Smith is very nice if you count it into saved gold at the end of the game. The effect is evenly spread out though and not as visible as equally usefull wonders.
I will finish with what IMO is the most 'usefull' wonder: The UN. Unchecking diplo victory just feels wrong since this is a vital part of the game balance. Not having it could topple the most comfortable world despot, and having it could give even the most weak player a chance to laugh at the power houses with absolute zero diplomatic charisma needed at an election. Get that fission ASAP, and make sure that you have ~1000 shields locked up in a palace somewhere the turn you have it researched.
I would hate to categorize the wonders, since they are so dependent on the game conditions from game to game. But I will try to rank them from the least useful ones.
Worthless: Oracle and The Great Wall.
Barely necessary: Maggelan's and Manhattan Project.
Limited to science designers: Collosus, Copernicus observatory, Shakespear, Newtons and Seti. :grad:
Limited to science race in modern era: Theory of evolution.
Limited to island maps/communication monopoly: Ligthouse.
Generally good ones: Smiths Trading* and Longevity.
Good - critical for warlords: Sun Tzu's art of War, Leonardo's and Univ. Suffrage. :tank:
Very good(try to get them most games): Hanging Gardens. Sistine Chapel, Cure for Cancer and The Great Library**.
Must have on average to large continents: Pyramids***, Hoover Dam and Bachs Cathedral.
Critical under any conditions: The UN. [dance]
* Don't have exact figures on how much $ this baby generates over a game. Could be that it should be under the 'Very Good' category.
** TG Library is not needed at easier difficulty settings, but is great to bar an AI from having your science handed to him untill education. Very hard wonder to evaluate. Deity makes it even more important - then again hard to prioritize before Pyramids.
***Pyramids can make your expansion into a river of settlers after a sertain number of years. Too late often in Deity games though. Like TGL it forces the player to carefully consider cost/effectiveness at higher diff. levels.
First of all, I've evolved from a preset stratagem player to a conditional opporunist. I used to categorize wonders and build them regulary like clockwork - alas this is no longer the case.
If I'm military I would throw in all but my kitchen sink to get Sun Tzu, Leonardo and Suffrage. The ability to keep your military machine lean and mean at a low cost both happiness(war weariness) and economically is first priority. Getting that instant barrax in a newly occupied city does wonder for my wounded units, and if a unit has been obsolete I just press shift-U for half the prize effectively in every city.
Pyramids is tricky. There is no way you can underestimate this wonder on a continent with room for 30 + cities(not ICS style). But getting this baby means sweating greatly at an early era when you should be competing to grab your fare share in the settlement race. If my capitol or second city has a geography that allmost hands out the Pyramids with cattle/game and forests it's perhaps worth rushing to get it with all means available(populating with workers and rushing temple). More often than not you will not have this luxury at Deity/Emperor level. So I find this wonder to be both connected to terrain possibilities and diff. settings. If you're on a large continent the odds are also higher that you can capture it from your neighbours at a later stage.
The hoover dam is just as vital to your game as Pyramids IMO. At the right continent size this little gem will turn your core cities into a Rhine area. Just make sure that you have workers to clean up that pollution that will blanket your lands in the next rounds. This is why you should rush to industri in good time so that your factories are up and running in the core cities once The Dam is finished.
Great library and Science City wonders(Collossus, Copernicus, Newton and SETI) are nice for that tech manipulating strategy. I would rate theese wonders along with the religious/happiness wonders. Not very critical. But very nice still.
All the happiness oriented wonders(beside oracle) are in the category as 'very nice'. Not critical since luxuries trade and luxuries tax can counter theese wonders. Oracle and The Great Wall are both the least usefull wonders both because of limited effect for skilled players and the sickening short time it takes before they're both obsolete. Bachs Cathedral is the exception here on large continents - great to counter that middleage war weariness.
Lighthouse and Maggelan's are both way down on the list. The same goes for Theory of Evolution. Nice little wonders in the right setting. Twin continents on large/huge map, and critical science race in modern times versus an evenly matched oponent makes them urgent to have. Adam Smith is very nice if you count it into saved gold at the end of the game. The effect is evenly spread out though and not as visible as equally usefull wonders.
I will finish with what IMO is the most 'usefull' wonder: The UN. Unchecking diplo victory just feels wrong since this is a vital part of the game balance. Not having it could topple the most comfortable world despot, and having it could give even the most weak player a chance to laugh at the power houses with absolute zero diplomatic charisma needed at an election. Get that fission ASAP, and make sure that you have ~1000 shields locked up in a palace somewhere the turn you have it researched.
I would hate to categorize the wonders, since they are so dependent on the game conditions from game to game. But I will try to rank them from the least useful ones.
Worthless: Oracle and The Great Wall.
Barely necessary: Maggelan's and Manhattan Project.
Limited to science designers: Collosus, Copernicus observatory, Shakespear, Newtons and Seti. :grad:
Limited to science race in modern era: Theory of evolution.
Limited to island maps/communication monopoly: Ligthouse.
Generally good ones: Smiths Trading* and Longevity.
Good - critical for warlords: Sun Tzu's art of War, Leonardo's and Univ. Suffrage. :tank:
Very good(try to get them most games): Hanging Gardens. Sistine Chapel, Cure for Cancer and The Great Library**.
Must have on average to large continents: Pyramids***, Hoover Dam and Bachs Cathedral.
Critical under any conditions: The UN. [dance]
* Don't have exact figures on how much $ this baby generates over a game. Could be that it should be under the 'Very Good' category.
** TG Library is not needed at easier difficulty settings, but is great to bar an AI from having your science handed to him untill education. Very hard wonder to evaluate. Deity makes it even more important - then again hard to prioritize before Pyramids.
***Pyramids can make your expansion into a river of settlers after a sertain number of years. Too late often in Deity games though. Like TGL it forces the player to carefully consider cost/effectiveness at higher diff. levels.
LionQ
Noble
You're absolutely right. If you conquer a city, your injured Units can heal in one turn and can go further with conquering then.Originally posted by Singularity
If I'm military I would throw in all but my kitchen sink to get Sun Tzu, Leonardo and Suffrage. The ability to keep your military machine lean and mean at a low cost both happiness(war weariness) and economically is first priority. Getting that instant barrax in a newly occupied city does wonder for my wounded units, and if a unit has been obsolete I just press shift-U for half the prize effectively in every city.
Indeed. When you've got the Pyramids, your cities will grow faster and that will allow you to produce Settlers much faster.
Indeed: the HooverDam will give a huge productivity increase when building it + Factory.
Well, if you'll build this Wonders all in the same city + Library + University + ResearchLab, then you'll get enormous ScienceProduction, since the effect are cumulative, Wonders ánd Improvements.
Indeed, GreatWall and The Oracle sucks. On the contrahary, the Bach's Cath is really a "must have" Wonder, imo.
I rate these Wonders much higher: Theory of Evolution is, imo, "must have".
Disagree. When turning DiplomaticVictory off, game = still balanced.
Good list!Worthless: Oracle and The Great Wall.
Barely necessary: Maggelan's and Manhattan Project.
Limited to science designers: Collosus, Copernicus observatory, Shakespear, Newtons and Seti. :grad:
Limited to science race in modern era: Theory of evolution.
Limited to island maps/communication monopoly: Ligthouse.
Generally good ones: Smiths Trading* and Longevity.
Good - critical for warlords: Sun Tzu's art of War, Leonardo's and Univ. Suffrage. :tank:
Very good(try to get them most games): Hanging Gardens. Sistine Chapel, Cure for Cancer and The Great Library**.
Must have on average to large continents: Pyramids***, Hoover Dam and Bachs Cathedral.
Critical under any conditions: The UN. [dance]
I'd say that Sun Tzu is the ultimatly most important military wonder for continental battle. Why? On continent domination, whenever you capture an enemy city, it gets this for free. Which means that you can heal your troops totally in any captured city.
GerrardCapashen
Benalish Master-at-Arms
Which do you think is better, Sistine Chapel or Bach's Cathedral? The Chapel gives a bigger effect but it requires cathedrals in any city that it would have an effect on. Bach's Cathedral does not require any buildings to give its bonus. Personally I prefer the Sistine Chapel as I almost always build cathedrals in all my cities over size 8.
Park Ranger
Wonder hog
In general I agree - JS Bach's is what I build when an AI beats me to Sistine Chapel. But when playing a scientific civ I like Bach's because I can delay building the temple in new cities and go library-marketplace-university to get a happy culture-producing city, with good science produciton too.
Of course, having both of them is nice, too.
greenie
Warlord
The ones I make sure I get?
Pyramids - free granaries
Sun Tzu - free barracks (v. important)
JS Bach/Sistine Chapel
Leonardos Workshop (doesnt stop me upgrading but nice to have)
Hoover Dam
On an aside, does anyone else think that Longevity comes a little too late in the game? Surely Longevity gets improved with the development of Medicine and Sanitation?
Thoughts welcome!
Pyramids - free granaries
Sun Tzu - free barracks (v. important)
JS Bach/Sistine Chapel
Leonardos Workshop (doesnt stop me upgrading but nice to have)
Hoover Dam
On an aside, does anyone else think that Longevity comes a little too late in the game? Surely Longevity gets improved with the development of Medicine and Sanitation?
Thoughts welcome!
