Will Civilization 6 be a shooter?

[logintime]

I believe your suspicions are correct, TheMeInTeam. 2K Games is largely responsible for how Civilization 5 turned out. They did it due to greed, forcing the game to be released far too early (at least a year) as well as thinking they knew better what Civ fans really wanted.

While Soren Johnson could stand up to them, having some pedigree and clout, Jon Shafer was likely taken advantage of and abused by the corporate suits. Budget cuts, creative suggestions that were more aimed at garnering a quick buck rather than retaining long time fans, and the pushing up of the deadline in order to cash in and placate their shareholders led to the debacle of game that we see here now.

The future? The future is bleak and it isn't going to get any better with 2K Games calling the shots.

I generally agree 2K is behind some of the problems, but I think you're giving Shafer too much credit. I mean, this game could have had another year of production on it before release and it still would have some of the huge gameplay flaws we're seeing. 1upt, insane diplomacy, low production values, limited scope, etc. I know 2K and Sid were pushing for an 'accessible game', but Shafer was the one enacting the changes and opening moving it to a Panzer General-style gameplay.

But yeah, the future doesn't look so bright for the series...

 

[Thormodr]

I generally agree 2K is behind some of the problems, but I think you're giving Shafer too much credit. I mean, this game could have had another year of production on it before release and it still would have some of the huge gameplay flaws we're seeing. 1upt, insane diplomacy, low production values, limited scope, etc. I know 2K and Sid were pushing for an 'accessible game', but Shafer was the one enacting the changes and opening moving it to a Panzer General-style gameplay.

But yeah, the future doesn't look so bright for the series...

Well, I feel that Jon Shafer had to make the best of a bad situation. The problem was that his lack of experience with game design as well as the corporate world really hurt this game.

A good analogy would be that Jon Shafer was forced to run a marathon with 5 pound weights strapped to his legs. He has essentially handicapped (no bad jokes please) from the start.

Jon Shafer isn't blameless in the whole affair. I think his fault was that he was overambitious and tried to shoehorn concepts in that flat out didn't work. He clearly cared about the game and wanted to make something great for the long time fans. The problem was that it conflicted with Sid and 2K Games' new vision of what Civ should be. So we ended up a chaotic mess in the end.

The whole affair is worthy of a Picard methinks.

 

[Camikaze]

I just feel like, if people really hate the game that much, hate Firaxis that much etc - why are they still here? Just leave, and then you'll be happy because you don't have to think/talk about Civ V any more; we'll be happy because we don't have to hear the same old tired complaints/blanket statements - and the world (and CFC) will be a better place.

Moderator Action: Making such comments as this is not acceptable. Everyone who posts within the rules is welcome at CFC. 'Posting within the rules' might mean not saying 'Civ5 sucks' in every thread, but people are certainly welcome to criticise the game where it is relevant or constructive to an ongoing discussion.

Rude posts, on the other hand, are not welcome.

 

[gingerbill]

This is the silliest thread i've seen on these forums , gave me a chuckle. CIV is a famous franchise , its critically successful and commercially successful .

There's a lot of doom and gloom and 'remembering the old days' . There are as many great games today as any peroid in gaming .

 

[jtb1127]

If you honestly believe that people at Firaxis don't care about Civ V (if nothing else, it's their cash cow) then you're decieving yourself - but really you have to look at the level of quality in Civ 5 to see that a lot of hard work, time and money was put into making that game. They sure as hell weren't twiddling their thumbs for 5 years. Lol, the modding community is great but there is no way they could ever create something on the level of Civ 5 in any reasonable amount of time - not in the format they are in. Sure the skill set is there - but the organisation and funding are not. Now if some members were to found a game company, maybe then they could create a half-decent game.

Everything they are doing is for money these days. Yeah they put in a lot of hard work- a lot of hard work to make more money. You criticize my proposal for the cfc modding community to take over the game by basically saying, "well at this exact second the modding community is incapable of making a game" That is why it is called a proposal. A proposal is the act of suggesting something.

Now if some members were to found a game company, maybe then they could create a half-decent game.

And when you say this, it exactly what I was referring in my post. Many mods for this game and the previous civ games are incredibly impressive and I have no doubt that an assembly of cfc's modders would be completely capable of making a civ game better than civilization V.

something on the level of Civ 5 in any reasonable amount of time

Who said anything about time? You did. You used time as a curt argument against my proposal. I can wait a few years for a decent strategy game. You made a rash assumption that I couldn't.

I just feel like, if people really hate the game that much, hate Firaxis that much etc - why are they still here? Just leave, and then you'll be happy because you don't have to think/talk about Civ V any more; we'll be happy because we don't have to hear the same old tired complaints/blanket statements - and the world (and CFC) will be a better place.

We're not allowed to constructively criticize a computer game any more? Camikaze's post sums up anything I have to say to your last two points.

 

[Truthy]

This is the silliest thread i've seen on these forums , gave me a chuckle. CIV is a famous franchise , its critically successful and commercially successful .

Commercial success is an issue which lacks relevance. As evident through the massive commercial success of Facebook games and mainstream shoot 'em ups, simple unit sales does not advocate for a better product. Strategy games as this guy said himself, simply aren't "contemporary". Meaning that they are not ideal for making as much money as possible. Civilization was a strategy game. It is now clearly evident that the owners of the franchise are no longer interested in making a good strategy game; they want money (as evidence, look what they doing with Xcom!) and they are willing to sacrifice the elements of a video game which made it strategy orientated. The mainstream video game market is for the most part not focused on games that revolve around problem solving or some level of higher thought; they are mainly focused on video games which offer an enjoyable, yet sadly mind numbing experience, to the player. All of this does not describe the concept of strategy games such as the civilization series. They want to turn the Civilization series into another mind numbing experience. This action is only justifiable through making money at the great expense of the fans who liked Civilization for what it was. Looking at Civ Rev, World, and that phone app thing the series is in the later chunk of the transition between glory and greed.

Critical success too is irrelevant. There is one fundamental problem for why critics are unreliable in the gaming industry: without video game sales all of the "critics" at IGN go without a job. Their reviews have the potential to make people buy the game, the magazine, visit the site, and see advertisements. Critics are in the cycle of destruction that consumes the gaming world. This is vastly different from the traditional film critics. People still buy newspapers regardless of how many people visit the movies. If everyone stopped going to movies, yes then film critics would lose their jobs. However, several factors make this different. A lot more movies are produced each year than video games and video games cost way more than movie tickets. Besides, the critics at IGn aren't people who have been playing the series since the release of civ 1. They do not meet the criterion of loyal fan base. The opinions you would find from long term civ players on this site are far more reliable than those at some magazine.

There's a lot of doom and gloom and 'remembering the old days' . There are as many great games today as any peroid in gaming .

What does this matter? Civilization V is not one of these "great games" you are referring to. It may not be the end of the video game industry but it is the end of the civilization franchise. Unless of course, a new publisher buys the series and actually cares about the opinions of the fan base and doe not pressure the devs to release a game prematurely. It is in the beta stage and someone has to be blamed. Paradox, come to the rescue!

 

[AznWarlord]

If Bioware took charge of Civ6, you'd get a Hack'n'Slash game. With a button of awesome.

And sad voice acting.

 

[Tatran]

2K Games is largely responsible for how Civilization 5 turned out.

Well, I'm not so sure about that anymore after the huge screw up last Monday and Tuesday in CivWorld.
The update on Monday caused a lot of gold + population losses in many players their cities.
On Tuesday, Firaxis rolled back the update which caused again problems.
Battle preparation time went up from 10 to 20 hours in that update,
but after the rollback it was set again to 10 hours.
So, all the battles, which were prepared on Monday, started 10 hours earlier.

 

[Thormodr]

Well, I'm not so sure about that anymore after the huge screw up last Monday and Tuesday in CivWorld.
The update on Monday caused a lot of gold + population losses in many players their cities.
On Tuesday, Firaxis rolled back the update which caused again problems.
Battle preparation time went up from 10 to 20 hours in that update,
but after the rollback it was set again to 10 hours.
So, all the battles, which were prepared on Monday, started 10 hours earlier.

Well, I could be wrong of course. Lol.
Perhaps it is a combination of both companies.

Civ World sounds like a disaster in the making.
Good thing Sid is in charge.

 

[LetTimmySmoke]

The problem here comes for the modern era (airplanes, trench warfare, scale - way too many units, ect.), which is from what i understand, the reason why the total war series isn't going farther in time than the early mid 19th century

@Insaneweasel: nice!

The game's called total war, but stops before the century known for total war.

 

[cman2010]

making civ 6 an fps would be a step up from civ 5

 

[CivFanaticMan]

It's sort of disgusting seeing how 2k thinks about it's games. Damn that really bums me out. And I really don't see anyone else making games as good as, and similar to the previous civ games. I guess it's like Sim City then... SC4/Civ4 forever.

 

[grandad1982]

XCOM (or UFO Enemy Unknown this side of the pons) as a shooter makes me sad inside. Outside too.

This was the first game I ever got into in a big way. I loved this game and have for several years now longed for it return as a modern strategy game.

2K are really a bunch of idiots.

 

[logintime]

It's sort of disgusting seeing how 2k thinks about it's games. Damn that really bums me out. And I really don't see anyone else making games as good as, and similar to the previous civ games. I guess it's like Sim City then... SC4/Civ4 forever.

YES! I was playing SC4 just last night, testing out a couple new downloads I'd gotten. It's amazing how well that game has held up over the last eight years. I'm hopeful that Civ4 will continue to do the same. They've both been my two favorite titles for the last several years running.

 

[bigkeno]

The very thought is a nightmare. I seem to be growing old and my favorite game lines aren't growing with me, they are dying. What the hell am I supposed to do when I retire? Play golf? That sounds horrible. Watch TV? My cat is smarter than most TV writers these days. I want good games to play. Civ VI should be a turn based game just like it is now, not some damn shooter which I wouldn't pay 1 cent for.

I know, right? LOL
When I get old I'm not gonna be on the golf course. I'm gonna be holed up in my crib, with my medical "happy plants" , gaming all day long. I'd love to play a game like Civ when I retire.