Will each Civ have a prefered religion?

[nokmirt]

The thing is, I doubt this was even a factor at all. Bickering on a forum - especially about something that is guaranteed to start internet bickering, like religion - dedicated to a single game series is likely considered as a negative, because if there's one thing Firaxis can count on, it's that despite all the bickering, we'll always cave in and buy their game, even if it's just to complain about it.

Firaxis has to be a brood of catholics. I just know it, and GnK is just a hyped up indulgence! Ok, count me in I am buying it. Perhaps it will keep me out of the hot place for 5000 years more than I would have had to spend there.

 

[SalmonSoil]

Nokmirt you clearly don't understand my point. I am not arguing that religions be given specific follower /founder beliefs. I am arguing that civs be given a higher likelyhood of ending up with a religion that suits them thematically. Yes some civs like the Native American civs do not have any ideal choice, that doesn't matter, let them choose at random. Yes some civs will not get there first choice or even their second choice, doesn't matter, let them choose at random. You are exactly right that the name is just there for flavour, like a sauce, and I would argue that Buddhism is to Isabella what chocolate sauce is to a hot dog. Strange and exciting every once and a while, but most of the time I just want ketchup. It matters to some people which religions each leader picks, we accept they will not always get the right one, but that doesn't matter, we don't want them to always get the right one.

In short: We do not want every religion to have a specific set of beliefs. What we do want is for most civs to be more likely to select a historically appropriate religious icon/title, to which they can attach whatever beliefs suit them gameplay wise. Unless you want every civ to have the exact same chance to pick any religious icon/title I don't see why you would oppose this.

 

[Lyoncet]

I think the communication breakdown is that the proposal is this:
"When a civ founds a religion, it would be cool if they chose a name/icon that reflected that civ's history."

Which some people have taken to mean this:
"It would be cool if what religions spread to what civs were influenced by that civ's history."

I could be wrong, but I din't think anyone's saying that Persia should go out of its way to adopt the religion that was arbitrarily named Zoroastrianism. Rather, that if Persia founds a religion, it would be cool if there were a built-in bias to prefer naming that religion Zoroastrianism.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I think the communication breakdown is that the proposal is this:
"When a civ founds a religion, it would be cool if they chose a name/icon that reflected that civ's history."

Which some people have taken to mean this:
"It would be cool if what religions spread to what civs were influenced by that civ's history."

I could be wrong, but I din't think anyone's saying that Persia should go out of its way to adopt the religion that was arbitrarily named Zoroastrianism. Rather, that if Persia founds a religion, it would be cool if there were a built-in bias to prefer naming that religion Zoroastrianism.

Exactly! That's what I want..

 

[Gucumatz]

Exactly! That's what I want..

And I too! Nothng big, but a small nice flavourful addition

 

[Lyoncet]

Clear communication wins the day! *joins hands and sings Kumbaya*

 

[Glassmage]

I want Herpes religion.

Moderator Action: Just in case not everyone get's the joke: Read this.

 

[LordMalice]

I really hope not. The civies in this game complain about how many cities and people are in your empire. If they complain over that trivial thing, than I hate to be bothered by a normally Christian Civilization that I made Hindu. Conquering the world is made really difficult cause of the for-mentioned complaint about how many cities is in your empire, but to have to deal with anger because I'm playing a civilization that wants a religion that they probably never knew existed at this time?

 

[Babri]

I really hope not. The civies in this game complain about how many cities and people are in your empire. If they complain over that trivial thing, than I hate to be bothered by a normally Christian Civilization that I made Hindu. Conquering the world is made really difficult cause of the for-mentioned complaint about how many cities is in your empire, but to have to deal with anger because I'm playing a civilization that wants a religion that they probably never knew existed at this time?

I don't get what u r saying. How is that related to this topic ?

 

[LordMalice]

I don't get what u r saying. How is that related to this topic ?

In Civ5, the overall population of your nation will get mad if you have too many cities in your empire. What I was saying is, if civs have a perfered religion, I would hope that it would not contribute to the anger problem because its already ridiculous as is(Seriously, who gets mad over how many cities are in a nation?).

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

In Civ5, the overall population of your nation will get mad if you have too many cities in your empire. What I was saying is, if civs have a perfered religion, I would hope that it would not contribute to the anger problem because its already ridiculous as is(Seriously, who gets mad over how many cities are in a nation?).

:| not once have that ever been even mentioned? so you're making stuff up, and getting unneccesairly paranoid.

The only way religion will affect any empire is via the bonuses and inter-civ relationship.

 

[geebo]

:| not once have that ever been even mentioned? so you're making stuff up, and getting unneccesairly paranoid.

The only way religion will affect any empire is via the bonuses and inter-civ relationship.

I think he though if the human player chooses another civ's prefered religion it would negatively effect them. But we're just referring to flavor, no game mechanics would be altered with this addition.

 

[LordMalice]

:| not once have that ever been even mentioned? so you're making stuff up, and getting unneccesairly paranoid.

The only way religion will affect any empire is via the bonuses and inter-civ relationship.

I dunno about you, but I don't think I can make something up when its in the game. In all honesty, the puppet state(puppet states, why?) doesn't surprise me as much as this.

Now, what I was saying is, considering the things that the population get mad at, I am afraid because they have a preferred population, they will get angry if you choose a different one. Of course, I likely mistook "preferred" for the civ as a whole wither you play it or not, rather than a civ being playing by a a.i.

 

[gunnergoz]

With regard to those who want some sort of game connection between nations and the religions historically associated with them: I frankly doubt that they will implement that in the game...it is potentially too controversial. I'm guessing it will have to wait for a mod. I'm not adverse to such an association being attempted, just being (I think) realistic, given the PC issues involved.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

You are seeing it wrnog.

The Unhappines caused by number of Cities is a measure against having large empires. Each Civ had some kind of mechanism to prevent you from being large without a penalty. Because the city-specific unhappines was made into global one.. blah blah blah.

In Civ 3, you have Corruption, in Civ 4, you had something.

See? Religion has nothing to do with anything of what you are talkin' about.

 

[A Rabid Dopsis]

"Of course, I likely mistook "preferred" for the civ as a whole wither you play it or not, rather than a civ being playing by a a.i."

Er... yes, yes you did.

So nobody in this thread was having an argument with anyone. Hurray!

 

[geebo]

With regard to those who want some sort of game connection between nations and the religions historically associated with them: I frankly doubt that they will implement that in the game...it is potentially too controversial. I'm guessing it will have to wait for a mod. I'm not adverse to such an association being attempted, just being (I think) realistic, given the PC issues involved.

If they approach religion from a historical accurate viewpoint there wouldn't be, actually couldn't be any controversy. Facts are facts, Isabella favored Christianity throughout history and that cannot change.

 

[gunnergoz]

If they approach religion from a historical accurate viewpoint there wouldn't be, actually couldn't be any controversy. Facts are facts, Isabella favored Christianity throughout history and that cannot change.

Right, but so did other rulers...so who gets to have what? I can see the arguments now:
"Israel started it"
"There is no Israel in the game"
"Then no one gets Christianity, I want Israel in the game"
"Isabella gets it next"
"But the Byzantines had it before her"
"Dibs, dibs, we Romans have the Vatican!"
"The Ethiopians next!"

See where I'm going with this? I personally don't think that 2k/Firaxis want to open this particular can of worms. They'll leave it to the modders to play around with. They'll give us the basic framework and let players decide how they want to play it.

 

[fuzzatron717]

Like I said maybe its like picking a name out of a hat.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Right, but so did other rulers...so who gets to have what? I can see the arguments now:
"Israel started it"
"There is no Israel in the game"
"Then no one gets Christianity, I want Israel in the game"
"Isabella gets it next"
"But the Byzantines had it before her"
"Dibs, dibs, we Romans have the Vatican!"
"The Ethiopians next!"

See where I'm going with this? I personally don't think that 2k/Firaxis want to open this particular can of worms. They'll leave it to the modders to play around with. They'll give us the basic framework and let players decide how they want to play it.

To answer this question :
"so who gets to have what?"

The answer is simple.. Let me put this under the microscope FOR THE FINAL TIME
There are 12 civilizations in this game, and 6 religions will be founded. The 12 Civs are
1. Arabia
2. China
3. India
4. Byzantium
5. Spain
6. England
7. Mongolia
8. Japan
9. Persia
10. Aztecs
11. Ethiophia
12. Celts.

The first civlization to found a religion is Mongolia, because Tengirism has roots in Mongolia, Genghis founds Tengirism as the FIRST religion. the other TEN options are still open
The second civilization to found a religion is Persia. Because I find Zorostranism most related to Persia, Persia finds Zorostranism as the SECOND religion.
The third civilization to found a religion, is Japan. Because Shinto has Japense roots, Oda founds Shinto, and the fourth religion to found a religion is Shinto.
The fourth civilization to found a religion is Isabella. Because Isabella is mostly a Christian girl, she picks Christianity. now, at this stage, Byzantium, Celts and England will now have to pick some other religion, because their prefered religion is already picked. and so it happens that the fifth religion founded is Judaism, because let's pretend England's second prefered religion is Judaism. The sixth relgigion is then founded by Byzantium, and Theodora chooses Islam because, I think Turkey is mostly a Islamic nation (correct me if I'm wrong). and Byzantium in Turkey.

Does everybody understand what is happening here?
Mongolia, Persia, Japan and Spain were the first four to found a religion, they picked their prefered religions (Tengirism, Zorostranism, Shinto, Christianity). the other two nations to found religion, England and Byzantium, both had Christianity as their top favourite religion. England was the 5th religion, and because Christianity was already picked, Liz chose her 2nd favourite religion, Judaism. (I'm assuming btw here, I don't know what's the second most popular religion in England). Because Byzantium was the last to found a religion, and Christianity and Judaism were already picked, Byzantium went to her 3rd favourite religion (Islam should probably even be the 2nd favourite religion for Byzantium), Islam. and so, Islam was stuck with Byzantium.

Now does EVERYBODY understand what we meant!?

All of the above is not only non-contoversial, but easy to implement, and adds perfect flavor to my game. I for one will pick religions based on nations I'll paly, I'll pick Christianity for most European nations, Islam or Judaism for Arabs, hell, I'll even pick Confucianism for Korea (for some reason, even if the religion is mostly Chiense!)