Will Smith acts like a crazy person and slaps the Oscars presenter
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Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
Which makes the denominator "offensive" completely out of place when you describe the nature of a joke, since offensiveness isn't an inherent trait of a joke. It is added after the event when someone gets offended.
Inappropriate, likewise. Since the Oscars is the designated event where the hosts are expected to crack those inappropriate jokes, does that make the joke appropriate for the event?
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
You were right the first time around. Chris Rock made a joke about Jada's bald head, he wasn't joking about other people's illness.
It was a joke, not an insensitive insult.
It's odd that the don't be a jerk is aimed at someone making a joke, not the one slapping.
Maybe the one not being able to take the joke should not attend an event where it is practically tradition to crack jokes about the millionaires in the room. Oh wait, but he got nominated for an Oscar. Right.
Probably also the reason he didn't do the one thing he could have done in order to preserve the moral high ground. Namely, walk out of the venue.
Hot take: Smith wanted to walk out, but in his daze walked to the stage and surprised when met with Rock instead of a door, he tried to fight his way out of it.
H4run
Deity
Bruh, what are you saying here Ziggy, like, it's different if I mock Joe Rogan bald head and called look like my thumb. compare that with I mock cancer patient's bald head. I can't just say "well, those two are the same, I aimed after their bald head" because no, it isn't the same.
Lots of insults are jokes. Like, I can coat an insult into joking something that's mean a lot to you and make fun of it, lets say like a tragedy that's just happened to your life, you lost your job and you lost someone that you love, and I make a clown out of it, the fact that I present it as a joke doesn't mean I can duck it from it being insensitive insults.
I don't know what millionaires have anything to do with this discussion as if the fact that they are millionaires and public figures they got every right and obligation to remain silent from insults and mockery. I don't get this.
That is the best option, I agree with you, but the slap is also not surprising, despite it's not the best and the smartest reaction, but his insult agitatess that reaction.
Lexicus
Deity
I don't know. Traitorfish was the one who used the word "inappropriate," not me. I would have used a word like "unjustified".
Anyway, there is a common name for a person who doesn't care about the emotional impact of their words on other people.
Also, you know who 100% certainly deserved to get hit at the Oscars? Clint Eastwood and John Wayne.
Berzerker
Deity
Eastwood stepped up to the podium and said, “I don’t know if I should present this award, on behalf of all the cowboys shot in all the John Ford Westerns over the years.” While some claim it was a joke to lighten the mood, others have deemed it inappropriate and dismissive.
SLAP HIM!
on behalf of all the people shot by Italian gangsters
the winner is: The Godfather
SLAP HIM!
on behalf of all the people shot by Italian gangsters
the winner is: The Godfather
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
Still doesn't make the joke about the illness.
Gee whiz, thanks for that explanation. Back to my statement: It was a joke, not an insensitive insult. Because it was a joke, not an insult. I do realise very well jokes can be used as an insult. This one wasn't.
I can imagine, since them being millionaires wasn't the point when I said: "should not attend an event where it is practically tradition to crack jokes about the millionaires in the room"
The slap is surprising since it answers speech with violence. Also: it's not an insult, it's a joke.
edit: Just realized, if it's an insult, it means Jada is insulted to be compared to Demi Moore in GI Jane.
Not very nice towards Demi Moore is it?
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Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
Not aware of the history and context of the word "inappropriate" in your discussion, and not that interested, so sure.
Is the name: "host at the Oscars"? (assuming the people you're referring to are the guests at the Oscars who have been roasted at the Oscars for years)
I didn't say you did. Bit quick to take offense here, eh?
It doesn't matter if it was hypothetical, what matters is the people posting who support the hypothetical. Thus rendering their dislike of Smith's slap pretty hollow, right?
I have no idea. Very few, if any, people in this thread think that violence was appropriate in this context. Understandable, maybe. Appropriate, pretty obviously not. I can't speak for every single poster, but that's the general impression.
And yet we have 24 pages because - like I keep saying - it needs to be both "violence is bad" and "the joke was fine". I'm not singling you out here (and was replying to TF by this point I believe).
24 pages of arguing says "yeah folks probably do".
Again, a bit quick to take offense here, yeah? I was talking to Traitorfish, about something he posted. I wasn't directing it at you.
Also, plenty of people have done the following:
- Played down the impact of the joke.
- Said alopecia isn't a "real" illness.
- Inferred random things about the Smiths' personal relationship(s).
These things aren't exclusionary, you know?
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
I think this opinion is the thing people are split over, more than anything else (slap being right or wrong, Oscars being for completely out of touch rich people, etc, et al).
@Gorbles , I think we are getting old and talk past each other 
I actually created the thread with fun in mind, and also because Smith's actions (not just the slap, his insane yelling was imo more damaging to him) are rather bizarre.
This can be insulting to people with lung cancer. Or a pale green face :/
I actually created the thread with fun in mind, and also because Smith's actions (not just the slap, his insane yelling was imo more damaging to him) are rather bizarre.This can be insulting to people with lung cancer. Or a pale green face :/
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
Did Chris Rock mean to insult Jada?
If he was, would that make the joke an insult?
If he wasn't, would that make the joke a joke with the potential to insult? (an insulting joke). (Where the people are split argument would pop up)
Is the difference between the noun "insult" and the verb "(to) insult" relevant?
Am I using this thread mainly to distract me from posting in the Ukraine thread?
One of these questions I have a definite answer to.
- He targeted her specifically out of a large audience, on a subject he has literally produced a documentary film about. None of us are him so none of us can claim definitely that he meant to, but likewise I feel it's fair to say we can't rule it out.
- Personally, intent is irrelevant to hurting someone. Which would be offense, though the two are often used interchangably, because English is a pain. Though, by definition, an insult is simply treating someone with disrespect. So it could be either yes or no, depending on the 4.
- It's not really about potential, it's about impact. Like I said, intent is pretty irrelevant (imo).
- It depends if "to insult" is synonymous with "to offend", which they typically are. But it isn't always. So insult, insulting and to insult can all relate, assuming "insulting" or "to insult" isn't being used in the same stripe as "offensive" or "to offend". Language isn't fixed, so there's really no good resolution to this. The best you can do is try to understand where the other person is coming from, and I think how it's being used here generally is "did Rock mean to offend Jada". You're free to disagree (goes without saying, but I figure why not say it).
- Aren't we all?
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It was part of a routine, two jokes which were linked by being about actor/actress couples there in the ceremony - first Bardem and his wife, then the Smiths. It'd be hard to target someone else once the routine was set by Rock.
I don't think Jada has enough gravity in the oscars in the first place - I suspect this is also true (but don't know, I haven't heard of her before, maybe she is very famous etc, I don't know if she was actually nominated or not) about Bardem's wife, and his joke was covertly at her expense.
That Jada is a non-factor in the oscars, and that Rock also thinks that, is obvious - Rock made a joke exactly with that meaning, a few years ago, and in videos about the slap it comes up very often.
I don't think Jada has enough gravity in the oscars in the first place - I suspect this is also true (but don't know, I haven't heard of her before, maybe she is very famous etc, I don't know if she was actually nominated or not) about Bardem's wife, and his joke was covertly at her expense.
That Jada is a non-factor in the oscars, and that Rock also thinks that, is obvious - Rock made a joke exactly with that meaning, a few years ago, and in videos about the slap it comes up very often.
I don't get the point. It was unscripted, regardless of what it was a part of. Rock chose to do it, and chose to deliver it in the way that he did. He could've easily picked any other person there with their partner. Are you saying he's not a good enough comedian to manage that?
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
I did not mean to make that a point by point argument, just pondering about scenarios. But I do feel intent is central to the discussion.
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
Ricky Gervais weighs in
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