Will there be a second expansion?

Will there be a second full expansion?

  • Yes

    Votes: 485 77.2%
  • No

    Votes: 143 22.8%

  • Total voters
    628
I'm strongly convinced a new expansion is planned. Mostly for one reason. Bonus resourcers are screaming to be used. They're already in the game and all they need is a good health mechanic. Some proposed ideas on this forum seem so obvious that I'm convinced something like this is being planned.

^ My thoughts exactly. I am sure there will be second expansion for CiV, but it will be more like 'Warlords' typish (as G&K is definitely the BTS of CiV), ie. smaller expansion. With focus on late game; expanded future era, new social policies, city health system with new game mechanic fresh water, diseases, environmentalism -> smog/pollution/oil spills, international trade, random events and of course the usual; new civs, techs, units, buildings, resources and such. :)

Hopefully it will be done fairly quickly after G&K (in a year -> out in summer of 2013). What I am more curious at the moment is, will there be new DLCs to accompany the release of Gods & Kinds ?
 
^ My thoughts exactly. I am sure there will be second expansion for CiV, but it will be more like 'Warlords' typish (as G&K is definitely the BTS of CiV), ie. smaller expansion. With focus on late game; expanded future era, new social policies, city health system with new game mechanic fresh water, diseases, environmentalism -> smog/pollution/oil spills, international trade, random events and of course the usual; new civs, techs, units, buildings, resources and such. :)

Hopefully it will be done fairly quickly after G&K (in a year -> out in summer of 2013). What I am more curious at the moment is, will there be new DLCs to accompany the release of Gods & Kinds ?

I like all of your suggestions. Gosh, I hope they are implemented if there is a second expansion pack...
 
My feeling is (and has been since launch really) that the puppeting system/mechanic along with general colonisation is very simplistic and has a lot of room for expansion. The same could be said for the blanket "happiness" controlling a lot of growth and corruption settings where it might not be entirely appropriate. Health, war weariness and a much expanded political/diplomatic system, including much more depth to occupied/annexed/puppeted conquered lands would be more than enough for me.
 
If the second expansion is about extending the future era. To me thats not interesting. Unless they concentrate more on the modern Cold War era. That would be very interesting. But no more GDRs and things like that, and no mecha Godzillas. Put that stuff in a mod or scenario. Oil spills and city health, probably would just be a burden. There is no need to over complicate things, we will already have enough to keep track of. International trade however, could be a worthwhile addition to the game. I am not sure about corporations either. I would like to see some unused features, to make the game more fun. One thing I would love to see is earlier intrigue and spying. The art of gathering information should evolve steadily upwards over the eras.
 
I think a worthy addition to the games as part of a new expansion would be the return of random events such as "Siam has just suffered a major drought, will you give them water, aid or ignore them?" etc. This was a great way to make the world seem that bit more realistic, plus it helped with diplomacy a lot! :D

Another thing I think they should add is a more dynamic environment, like erupting volcanoes, melting ice-sheets (would allow ecology tech to have some more uses) and disappearing resources (like stone, marble, sheep, pearls, anything really) if they are used too much. I think this would make the game more dynamic and absorbing.:goodjob:
 
I'm a huge Civ fan and if they released a second expansion, I can't imagine not buying it on the first day it was out. But I wouldn't buy it if they couldn't come up with better ideas than the ones suggested so far in this thread. Random events is meh, hardly interesting, more just annoying. I couldn't care less about a future era, I almost always have the game won by then anyway. And it is boring if I don't have it won by then. It has to be something that adds to gameplay and strategy without dragging the game out too much.
 
The big ones for me are:

Health, a specific city mechanic where you gain bonuses for each type of food eaten in that city plus health bonuses based on buildings and social policies. Happiness is a global limiter, but health is a management for each city. You can ship surplus food sources to other cities or trade them to another civ. Certain improvements or UAs improve yield.

So if you have a city with 3 wheat in range, and they have a UA that doubles grain yield, that city is producing 6 wheat. The city keeps one for itself, ships the other four sources to your other cities (a growth and health bonus) and you trade another to Ethiopia for a little cash.

Trade routes: Selected sea tiles that due to favorable trade winds give you a bonus if your Navy has control of them. Tiles are every third tile or so in some way connecting two bodies of land. If you have a ship in every marked tile you get a gold bonus and your nearest coastal cities produce GM points.

Trading Posts: Trading Posts are used to secure resources outside your borders. they must be joined by a road. They are absorbed by spreading culture from nearby civs. Current Trading Posts are called towns.

Colonies: Cities founded on a landmass other than you can be founded as a colony: No happiness penalties, you receive half of their resources, beakers, etc. and your trade routes are more lucrative. Fail to protect colonies and the colony may revolt to another civ or become independent!
 
It's interesting you should mention Call to Power. If there are plans for a second expansion, the new Steampunk scenario might be designed to test the waters and see what the fans like/don't like. Colonization of the ocean is certainly an interesting idea. However, I expect that such an expansion of the future era would be optional, as some might not like it. At any rate, it would be nice to see a greater use of sea resources, including the addition of deep sea resources. Obviously the reason there are none currently is that you can't build improvements outside your territory. However, this could be changed, and it would certainly be more realistic and make the game more interesting. One way would be to radically change the rules of border expansion, where tiles that you improve are "homesteaded" into your empire. This of course introduces all kinds of interesting tensions, with countries competing to develop the resources of wild territories. Certainly it could spark disputes that would start wars. The one potential drawback to this is that there would be less incentive to found cities if you don't have to to harvest resources, but this could be solved by making resources worked by a city have a much higher output (say 3x).
 
I think as long as there are a reasonable number of people who express an interest in them making an expansion, one will be made. Some things I'd quite like to see include:

- Some kind of stability/loyalty system - perhaps like in Rhye's or the Revolutions mod - where poorly managed and severely unhappy empires may collapse or have parts of their territory secede from them.

- New city state types:
- Scientific: Improves your research rate by a small amount (I'm amazed that this isn't a type already).
- Information Broker: Gives a slight boost to the success rate of your espionage missions in other cities.
- Innovative/Progressive: Slightly increases Great Person birth rate in all your cities.

- Multiple leaders per civ - if for no other reason that it would provide the modding community with more base resources to work with, and add a bit more variety to each game. I think it'd be okay if they left the UA tied to the civ itself, and just gave the leaders traits that would give you a boost in specific areas, so that you could fine-tune your civ to suit your play-style. For example, if you're playing as France, you get a boost in military production when you play as Napoleon, whereas Louis XIV gets a boost in culture.

- Barbarian states - I think that there was a mechanic in Civ Rev where the barbarian cultures had a central camp from which 'settler' equivalents would spawn and form new, minor camps, along with military units. I only played the demo though, so I can't really remember - it seemed like an interesting system though. Maybe the main camp could become an actual city if left long enough.

- An expanded Classical Era (and possibly also Ancient Era), as the early game always seems to be relatively neglected.

Also - I like the ideas people have been suggesting about a revised health system and improved trade. I'd be happy to see any of these things included. Also - just because the game appears to be massively improved, and now includes the main things that were left out from Civ IV, doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be improved further! ;)

Also - sorry for the long post... :sad:
 
My feeling is (and has been since launch really) that the puppeting system/mechanic along with general colonisation is very simplistic and has a lot of room for expansion. The same could be said for the blanket "happiness" controlling a lot of growth and corruption settings where it might not be entirely appropriate. Health, war weariness and a much expanded political/diplomatic system, including much more depth to occupied/annexed/puppeted conquered lands would be more than enough for me.

Yes, but nearly all of these have always been true of Civ games in one form or another - they've never been simulations. Civ 4 maintenance was an extremely simplified way of dealing with a range of concepts from actual building maintenance to logistical costs of governance and the effects of corruption, for example. Occupying cities in past Civ games didn't even have a puppet option - it was simply a matter of annexing or razing, with a 'conquered' happiness penalty not dissimilar from the current one (only at city scale). Even the more detailed Total War games use essentially that simplified model, so I think it would be out of place to add much extra detail to that relatively minor aspect of Civ.

Health is a popular mechanic for some reason, and I wouldn't be surprised if something similar were to come back, if only because a lot of G&K seems aimed at appeasing nostalgia fans and if there's one piece of nostalgia that's still hard to shake, it's having some form of city-level management mechanic. I'm sure it could be managed in a way that allows both a global happiness mechanic and a level of city-scale management.

War weariness makes sense, but I don't see how to add it in a way that justifies an expansion or would make it any kind of big sell, and again there are plenty of higher-detail games than Civ that don't use any equivalent mechanic (such as Total War - which you might expect given the name, but the series is largely about empire management in the campaign map). Most obviously it would just be a happiness modifier, possibly also a production penalty that reflects the difficulty of sustaining a war over a long period. After all, it is only in the very recent modern era (and mostly subsequent to WWI, and particularly since the availability of mass media) that war has tended to cause unhappiness in a population in its own right, rather than indirectly through additional tax burdens, or through representing production losses which are arguably better-represented in other ways.

One omission that might seem strange, that has never been in a Civ game, is slavery. This is very much a key driver of civilisations' development historically, in many ways as much as the religion everyone wanted because it was so important to civilisation, and which is at least acknowledged in versions of Civ that don't use a separate mechanic for it. We get resources representing everything from spices (which had a major impact on the development of intercontinental trade routes as well as exploration) to tulips (which were a short-lived fad that made a bit of money for the Dutch), and yet one of the most important aspects of trade in history is essentially written out of the game. Certainly Civ IV had a mechanic called slavery, but it wasn't in any way related to slave trading or to the long-term impacts of slavery on both enslaved and slaver societies.

As for the question of whether there will be a second expansion, though, I suspect the answer is no. There aren't really any "big sells" they could use as a hook, with both religion and espionage in the game, to sell a full-size expansion. Health, war weariness and international trade are all good ideas, but not enough to sell more than a set or two of DLC. Most of the high-profile civs that were left out of the main game are in the expansion. The few remaining imports from older versions of Civ they could try, such as corruption or corporations, simply weren't popular.
 
I think a worthy addition to the games as part of a new expansion would be the return of random events such as "Siam has just suffered a major drought, will you give them water, aid or ignore them?" etc. This was a great way to make the world seem that bit more realistic, plus it helped with diplomacy a lot! :D

Another thing I think they should add is a more dynamic environment, like erupting volcanoes, melting ice-sheets (would allow ecology tech to have some more uses) and disappearing resources (like stone, marble, sheep, pearls, anything really) if they are used too much. I think this would make the game more dynamic and absorbing.:goodjob:

I like the random events, but definitely don't want the return of exhaustible resources. There's a balance to be struck between flavour and strategy, and the game becomes too dominated by random events if such key game elements as resource access are limited by a random timer, because you lose the ability to plan around the resources you need to maintain happiness or your current army. You could of course set a fixed timer, but that relies on having other available sources of those resources once one becomes exhausted - which again relies more on a random event (in this case the layout and distribution of resources in that particular map) than player strategy.

Colonies: Cities founded on a landmass other than you can be founded as a colony: No happiness penalties, you receive half of their resources, beakers, etc. and your trade routes are more lucrative. Fail to protect colonies and the colony may revolt to another civ or become independent!

I quite like this idea, though I don't see it gaining a lot of traction - ultimately your colony will end up behaving like a city-state. It gives you resources and other benefits as long as you keep it happy, but once you lose influence it's gone or someone else will take control. City-states are certainly Civ V's greatest improvement over previous Civ games (many would argue the only one, and often then with the qualifier "in principle"), and so something like this colony system would have been very welcome in older versions of Civ (Civ IV 'colonies' didn't work this way or, indeed, have very much detectable effect), but in the current game it seems somewhat redundant - and probably less detailed than what we'll be seeing with Gods & Kings.
 
I can see some tech tree enhancements and a few new mechanics overall in a second expansion.
I can see health, which is kinda boring but I think late game could become more interesting with pollution, climate change, alt. energy et cetera.
I can also see a revolution-type mechanic, or at least something relating to national unity. Improvements to colonization would be good.
But we'd of course need new units, civs and techs to make it interesting.
 
Slavery was a big part of Civ IV, and one of the most effective micromanaging strategies.

No, a rule called "slavery" was a big part of Civ IV. What it represented was the Hollywood vision of cruel pharoahs whipping slaves to death to finish major construction projects, something also testified to by its very early place in the tech tree. It didn't depict anything of slavery as a major historical phenomenon, a far later development, and particularly its significance in defining the political landscape of the Renaissance, or of the impact of the slave trade (be it commercial, social or diplomatic) on the societies involved in both export and import. States were founded on the back of slavery, and in some cases from escaped slaves; others like Kongo and Zanzibar survived and flourished largely from exporting slaves. Slavery led to a civil war in at least one emerging power, promises of freedom earned colonial powers local allies in their own conflicts, and was the first major civil rights issue that ultimately preceded the liberalisation of the Western world. Moving towards the modern world, whether states were slave-owning or not had a significant influence on diplomatic relations, and some later colonial adventures were launched explicitly or implicitly to eliminate slavery from other territories - which gives fertile ground for reflecting slavery diplomatically in Civ.

And that's just from the European perspective - consider the role the Aztec treatment of the empire's essentially enslaved subject states had on their downfall. None of that was in any way captured in the Civ IV mechanic.
 
An expansion that focused on colonialism, international trade/politics, and environmentalism/health with the accompanying new techs seems like it'd add quite a lot to the game for me. Heck, to go along with the nature stuff they could include random events from Civ4 to add a "mother nature" aspect to playing. And the regional looks for units would be nice too. Throw in some Civs that had a more "balanced/environmentalist" approach to the earth and you can even carve out a discernible theme for a title. Just like all the Kings in Gods & Kings. Wait, there aren't any besides Attila? ...Anyways, it'd give Firaxis a chance to throw in some fan favorite Civs like the Innuit or modern states such as Brazil. (Innuit = environmental/"balance", Brazil = colonial/trade). Or at least that's my take on the matter.
 
I'm a huge Civ fan and if they released a second expansion, I can't imagine not buying it on the first day it was out. But I wouldn't buy it if they couldn't come up with better ideas than the ones suggested so far in this thread. Random events is meh, hardly interesting, more just annoying. I couldn't care less about a future era, I almost always have the game won by then anyway. And it is boring if I don't have it won by then. It has to be something that adds to gameplay and strategy without dragging the game out too much.


Perhaps the expanded Future Era could be something completely different than you expect :)

Not just continuing the game (which you have usually won way before future era) but adding new map altogether. Perhaps Colonization of Moon, Mars, building a Space Station or even landing your Space ship in Alpha Centauri. This could be continuation of original game, Space themed Scenario or even remake of the original Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri game (kinda like the Colonization remake for Civ4 some years ago).


If the second expansion is about extending the future era. To me thats not interesting. Unless they concentrate more on the modern Cold War era. That would be very interesting. But no more GDRs and things like that, and no mecha Godzillas. Put that stuff in a mod or scenario. Oil spills and city health, probably would just be a burden. There is no need to over complicate things, we will already have enough to keep track of.


I do not like GDRs and would gladly see them added rather in a Scenario. I see those Environmentalism aspects rather just a small addition, which you could ignore if you do not like them. Kinda like not choosing the Environmentalism SP, not building those improvements and ignoring pollution and oil spills. This would give you some negative things and the more "Green" leaders would not like you, but thats just more flavor to the game. :)


Slavery was a big part of Civ IV, and one of the most effective micromanaging strategies.

Agreed. Slavery should be implemented to the game someway. It was a major thing in old times and should not be ignored. Vikings (Danish/Norwegian), for example, had their whole culture emphasized in slavery. Capturing Irish and British Kings, Priest and Common folk and selling them in Scandinavian slave markets or selling them back for ransom.

Perhaps Slavery could be implemented via Barbarians. You could buy captured GPs, Workers and Settlers from them (stored in the Barbarian Camps) and/or Slave Market building for each Civ. You could sometimes choose of capturing enemy unit after victorious combat rather than killing it and this unit could be sold back to the previous owner via Slave Market Building, National Wonder or World Wonder.
 
Something to note is that if it's coming out in a year+, the new SimCity game, which may be loosely grouped in the same sort of category as Civilization, is said to have a very heavy focus on environmentalism and sustainability type themes, which could well spur on plenty of debate about 'responsible gaming' within the industry around the time we're expecting XP2. Consider also that Civ 5 launched with the green box, minus the manual and with quite publicised focus on that topic.
 
No, a rule called "slavery" was a big part of Civ IV. What it represented was the Hollywood vision of cruel pharoahs whipping slaves to death to finish major construction projects, something also testified to by its very early place in the tech tree. It didn't depict anything of slavery as a major historical phenomenon, a far later development, and particularly its significance in defining the political landscape of the Renaissance, or of the impact of the slave trade (be it commercial, social or diplomatic) on the societies involved in both export and import. States were founded on the back of slavery, and in some cases from escaped slaves; others like Kongo and Zanzibar survived and flourished largely from exporting slaves. Slavery led to a civil war in at least one emerging power, promises of freedom earned colonial powers local allies in their own conflicts, and was the first major civil rights issue that ultimately preceded the liberalisation of the Western world. Moving towards the modern world, whether states were slave-owning or not had a significant influence on diplomatic relations, and some later colonial adventures were launched explicitly or implicitly to eliminate slavery from other territories - which gives fertile ground for reflecting slavery diplomatically in Civ.

And that's just from the European perspective - consider the role the Aztec treatment of the empire's essentially enslaved subject states had on their downfall. None of that was in any way captured in the Civ IV mechanic.

You could take such a literal interpretation of any civic and use it as a criticism. This is a game -- all they can do is make "rules" that would slightly resemble what they are meant to represent. Serfdom also didn't make workers work 50% faster, capitalism didn't add an extra trade route, communism didn't eliminate maintenance costs for distance from the capital, representation didn't give a science bonus to specialists, etc. All of these things were much more complicated in history than in the game, but it's a game and they need to simplify things by using rules. Slavery existed in the ancient world, so it needed to be early in the tech tree. This didn't mean you could only use it in the ancient world, you could use it at anytime in the game, though it (accurately) became much more difficult to use in the late game because of emancipation.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with Civ V, and you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. If you have a suggestion for a way slavery could be better represented in Civ V that actually adds some entertainment value to the game, then let's hear it.
 
I would like to see a greater focus on diplomacy. Expand the UN, reincorporate the Apostolic Palace, add some sort of HRE mechanic. Political Unions between civs, varying degrees of vassalage. Also civil wars, revolutions, governments etc. Make the existence of each civ in a game more dynamic, and allow the opportunity to mix and match UA/UB/UU/UIs in those political unions (at some cost, of course).
 
If they make a second expansion, I would love to see Congresses in the later eras (much like in Rhye's and Fall of Civilization), where the smaller, stepped on Civs can kinda catch up by asking for cities that the world (or at least the AI's) thinks are rightfully theirs.
 
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