[WIP] Project Civ: A Quality-Oriented Civ Pack

[Irkalla]

Irkalla, as a point of general interest if you could as I only have cursory knowledge of this, didn't all the American Indians share the belief of the Flood? Mind, this is just a side note, you don't have to explain, or go deeply here.

Sumerians and Abrahamics believed in it too.

 

[Genghis.Khan]

Genghis.Khan, never misquote any person who speaks to you.

The following excerpts do not mean the same thing, maybe to someone of your years it does, maybe you misunderstood the English idiomatic expression, but what I said is that we both grew up in the Middle East as youngsters, where we had to learn a variety of languages, and good manners according to the TIME and PLACE we were in.

The whole Eastern Mediterranean littoral after the 2ndWW and for about 20- 25 years later had a very similar way of life and basic education that encompassed so many subjects it was ridiculous. 15 subjects at Matriculation level.

Quote:
1) My background is extremely similar to Prof. Taleb's, as we spent our formative years in the same milieu, albeit in different countries, but we speak the same languages although I also have Greek which he hasn't.
Quote:
I am as good as Taleb, actually I am better because I know Greek! Also Black Swan is about the 2007-2008-Present Crisis
That type of thinking coloured our world views in a similar manner, and I own his books, which come to similar conclusions that I have distilled for myself over the years. His are backed by high order statistics, mine through Historical parallelism but we both agree, that somehow, humans do not perceive long term cascades of actions. Question, have you read the Black Swan? Did you know the Turkey story?
If not, then we are not on the same page.

About Human freedom? Ask your parents what would happen if there was no money coming in from work, ask if they don't feel obligated every morning, ask if they wouldn't like to do something different and not have to worry what will tomorrow bring. We're not free, we're enslaved by different means, but ... we're still Helots.

Human freedom is constrained, if it wasn't up to a point, then we'd have Hobbes reality, of war of everyone against everyone, and see his views as far as the intelligence and logical nature of a human being is concerned. (Hobbes, English Philosopher)

About things happening cyclically in History, there is even laws and names for these, the Kondratieff 50 year cycle, the 25 year and the 11 year cycles, but they're not taught at high school level.

Trust me History cycles, every now and then she changes her clothes and we don't see her coming, but she comes, sits on us till we are squeezed dry, then the cycle moves along it's path and we can breathe again.

Really this discussion is just too big to be continued here and I also cannot continue as I don't know whether you read the Black Swan or not.

1. I was demonstrating a way you could be misinterpteted. I understand that you were stating that there were few cultural differences between you and Prof.Taleb

2. Yes, I've read the 'Black Swan', I am reading it for the third time now. I understood the turkey reference

3. About the freedom of human beings. I completely agree with what you stated here but Talking about freedom of humans I was misendestood. Sorry, again, English is not my native language. I was talking abou the human moves being highly unpredictable. Yes, we are Helots. All of we.

4. History may cycle. Upon certain conditions certain events happen. But it's not like a computer program. It isn't completely unprdedictable.

Apologize to Irkalla again, next time, I'll PM you.

 

[turingmachine]

Irkalla, as a point of general interest if you could as I only have cursory knowledge of this, didn't all the American Indians share the belief of the Flood? Mind, this is just a side note, you don't have to explain, or go deeply here.

Sumerians and Abrahamics believed in it too.

But this is comparative mythology at its worst. There is no the flood myth, there are several independent flood myths. The flood myth (as epitomized in the Bible) that originated in Mesopotamia and spread along the Afro-Asiatic language groups is completely unrelated to flood myths found in Native American cultures. Even here, though, there are several myths that just happen to feature floods among the various Native American peoples. Most are unrelated to each other, so there isn't a universal Native American flood myth.

 

[Irkalla]

Thought of a new logo for the Mississippians...

But this is comparative mythology at its worst. There is no the flood myth, there are several independent flood myths. The flood myth (as epitomized in the Bible) that originated in Mesopotamia and spread along the Afro-Asiatic language groups is completely unrelated to flood myths found in Native American cultures. Even here, though, there are several myths that just happen to feature floods among the various Native American peoples. Most are unrelated to each other, so there isn't a universal Native American flood myth.

Yeah, you're right. We should be viewing cultures in their own context.

But there was this sort of universal north american believe in the crooked nose man. I seem to find it in a lot of places I look. I am certain that both the Six Nations and the Mississippians have/had their tales about him. But then again, the Mississippians were the mother to a lot of different cultures, like the Choctaw, Chickasaw, Natchez, and the Alabama I'm certain.

Basically, in the beginning of the world was a man. He prided himself on the notion that he surely must have created this, since there's no one else here. The man comes across another man, and they begin to debate on who the creator was. So they had a test of power. Each man would turn his back to a mountain try to move it, and both would turn around to see how far it moved. It was agreed that whoever moved it further surely must have been the creator.

So the first man turns his back, and when they both turn back around they find that the mountain has moved, but only by a few cubits or so. Then the second man turns his back, and when they both turn around to see how far it has moved, the first man hits is nose on the mountain, for it has moved so far as to be right behind him. This is how he got his crooked nose.

So they both agreed that the second man was surely the creator, and they almost agreed that the crooked nose man should leave this plane of existence. But the crooked nose man made a deal with the true creator. The crooked nose man agreed to look after and protect mankind, and in exchange he would get to say. And the crooked nose man and the true creator struck the deal.

At one time, there were many cults to the crooked nose man that revered him. Not too sure about the true creator, though.

 

[Irkalla]

So I've introduced the Playstyle Chart to the OP. Here's the Legend. I'll update it as I introduce new icons.

Icon|Meaning

|Tall; Well Developed Cities

|Wide; Less Developed Cities

|Economy

|Trader

|City States

|Warrior, Warlike, Domination

|Cultural, Culture VC

|Religious

|Great People

|Bully

|Peaceful, Non-aggressive, Can Win without Warring

|Early Game Power

|Late Game Power

|Freedom

|Autocracy

|Order

 

[mrc2022]

very nice
ready to try out sparta

 

[Genghis.Khan]

@ Irkalla how did you get those smilies? are those images. Because [ICON_HAPPINESS_1] does not work

 

[Irkalla]

@ Irkalla how did you get those smilies? are those images. Because [ICON_HAPPINESS] does not work

http://modiki.civfanatics.com/index.php/Text_icons_and_markups_(Civ5)

 

[Irkalla]

My final go at the Mississippian Icon, 'd like to thank Arkade over at Spektre for helping me out with the logo. Went with a more earthy background tone.

Also, Mississippians are on the drawing board. I want your feedback on what needs to go and what needs to stay. Cahokia will be turned into a religious city state, which means I'll have to do a little bit of audio editing. Regarding Cholula, Chulula was to the Aztecs as Rome was to Medieval and Renaissance Europe.

The Drawing Board

[SIZE="+1"]the Mississippians[/SIZE]
Leader: Tuskaloosa?
Unique Building: Burial Mound - Gives 2 Faith and 10% Culture in this city. Replaces Temple.
Unique Building: Chunkey Field - Gives 2 Happiness, 1 faith, and 1 culture, no maintenance cost. Replaces Colosseum or Circus (No horses required if replacing circus.)
Unique Unit: Falcon Dancer/Falcon Warrior: Gains 25% of killed Units' strength as Faith; Gains 25% of killed Units' strength as Culture.
Unique Ability Pieces - Move along River tiles as if they are Road. River tiles can form a Trade Route. Bonus Faith and Culture in cities with a Trade Route before Compass.

New City State: Cholula (Religious)

 

[Genghis.Khan]

Irkalla, what about adding civs in DLC_01 Folder. Set VPS = "true" and update those Mongol files to add your Sumerian Civ? That way maybe you could add custom music, 3D Leaderheads with effects...

 

[Irkalla]

Irkalla, what about adding civs in DLC_01 Folder. Set VPS = "true" and update those Mongol files to add your Sumerian Civ? That way maybe you could add custom music, 3D Leaderheads with effects...

Ruins distribution. Plus it's checked against md5's.

 

[Androrc the Orc]

Ruins distribution. Plus it's checked against md5's.

Pretty much. It's not worth it IMO.

 

[Irkalla]

Pretty much. It's not worth it IMO.

I'm beginning to think we've been hamstrung as far as this goes. I know if the CaptainBlinky were contributing to this project and we had a decent VST contributor, that we, without doubt, would be able to give Firaxis a run for their money.

That said, finding someone with the 3D talent of CaptainBlinky (who is ex-industry,) and finding a VST guy would be two of the toughest, if not impossible challenges this project would face.

Also, if anyone from Firaxis is reading... Give us the ability to do these things and you can consider the gauntlet thrown the **** down.

We'd have the advantage. We don't have a publisher to keep happy by generating sales

 

[Irkalla]

Indonesia's up on the Drawing board! Where my Indonesians at?

The Drawing Board


[SIZE="+1"]Indonesia[/SIZE]
Leader: Hayam Wuruk/Rajasanagara?
Unique Building: Candi - Gives 2 Faith, 2 Culture, and 1 Happiness. +1 Maintenance Cost. Has Artist Slot.
Unique Unit: Not quite sure yet.
Unique Ability: Thalassocracy - Can Embark immediately into Coastal waters. Land Units have better Defense when embarked. Coastal cities gain 10/15/20% bonus culture. Naval units start with +15 XP. More to come? (this trait is meant to be whittled down a bit)

New City State: Antananarivo (Mercantile)

My biggest issue with this is that thalassocracy has been done to death in Civ 5. What, with the Polynesians, Songhai, England, and the Ottomans. I'm looking for original ways to represent it. Coastal cities gaining bonus culture is one way of doing it.

What are your ideas, community? Ideally, giving embarkation at start, giving a discount on sea unit maintenance, giving bonus defense when embarked, extra sight when embarked, and extra moves when embarked are all out.

 

[JA_Lamb]

How about cheaper sea Techs?

BTW isn't it funny that the only people who developed the word that truly describes what you mean, along with the biggest sea traders, don't have a thalassocracy trait at all?

 

[Irkalla]

How about cheaper sea Techs?

BTW isn't it funny that the only people who developed the word that truly describes what you mean, along with the biggest sea traders, don't have a thalassocracy trait at all?

Well, thalassocracy wasn't really a trait of Alexander's Empire. Sure, ships were a big deal... But they weren't its defining trait. It was a trait of the Athens and the Delian league. How I wish Greece were instead Athens, led by Pericles.

 

[SuperWaffle247]

Maybe focus it on benefits for coastal tiles? Lots of Civs have bonuses to sea units. That's an indirect incentive to settle on coasts, obviously. But a non-military incentive for building cities on coasts or working coastal tiles? I really know nothing of Indonesian history, so I don't know if that fits.

Also, I feel like there are too many Temple replacements.

 

[Irkalla]

What about a shrine replacement? 1 faith, 1 culture, no maintenance?

 

[SuperWaffle247]

Sounds good to me, although the Ethiopian Stele gives +2 Culture and +2 Faith for 1 maintenance.

 

[hangman]

My final go at the Mississippian Icon, 'd like to thank Arkade over at Spektre for helping me out with the logo. Went with a more earthy background tone.

I was under the impression that the eye-in-hand motif was more specifically Mississippian than the cross in a circle, but I guess either works.

Also, Mississippians are on the drawing board. I want your feedback on what needs to go and what needs to stay. Cahokia will be turned into a religious city state, which means I'll have to do a little bit of audio editing. Regarding Cholula, Chulula was to the Aztecs as Rome was to Medieval and Renaissance Europe.

Cholula was an important mesoamerican city, but I wouldn't compare it to Rome, as the Aztecs had a number of historical influences. The Aztecs attributed their civilization to the Toltecs, although they often conflated the archeological Toltec civilization with the Teotihuacan empire. These are usually considered to be the most important precedents to Aztec civilization.

Cholula itself was occupied by a series of different ethnicities, and went through rises and falls in importance through its long history. In general, it was important for administrative and religious reasons.

It seems kind of strange to include a mesoamerican city as a substitute for a north american one... I'd suggest maybe using Chaco Canyon instead.