[WIP] Project Civ: A Quality-Oriented Civ Pack

[Genghis.Khan]

Abou the civs I think you might add those


The Kingdom of Israel
Leader: Solomon/David
Trait: Yeretz Israel: +1 per turn. +0.5 per New Populations in Cities
UU: Haganah (Replaces WW Infantary) Bonus in friendly lands (15%) and against civilizations with other religion (20%).
UB: Synagogue (Replaces Temple). +2 and +1


Mali
Leader: Mansa Musa
Trait: Something related (e.g. +2 per +1 per desert tiles
UC1
UC2

 

[Moriboe]

On Poland: Looks good, but with those 2 UU -even though the best historical choices imo- it looks a lot like "that other" Poland mod, which has unit graphics for both btw, so definitely steal from it . Besides, even though the Polish Hussar was different from the general light cavalry model of hussars, it is already a UU for Austria now. And enough civs have mounted replacements to have another civ with two of them.

The UA looks really strong. I'll just promote the Folwark one last time (unless asked). As a Garden replacement with slightly reduced (say 20%) GP production, to temper the UA a bit, it would make sense. Gold on food resources, defined as "any resource, bonus or luxury, that adds food either as base or improved yield", would also boost salt. And that's just fun for immersion if it happens to be in your empire, considering its importance for Poland .


On Sparta: it does look overpowered for (early) rush potential. How about "starts with the Honor tree unlocked" somewhere in there? Would not be that much of a bonus, as it increases the cost for the next policy of course, so slower Liberty (if desired).

 

[Irkalla]

Early rush potential

You haven't played the Huns, have you? I randomed them when I was testing Sumerians 3α yesterday, and dear god. Literally marched in with nothing but a battering ram and one shot the city. Never before has taking cities in the ancient era been so easy.

So yeah, they won't be the only big kid on the block early game. Like I say, though, I'll mess around with the trait once I get them in a working state, and if I can't get it balanced without making it useless, I'll scrap it.

Oh, and about my test, I had Eannatum exactly where I wanted him to be. Expect a release in a few hours.

Mali

Songhaiface.jpg

Israel

For their trait, I was thinking something along the lines of... Reconsecration - Conquering a city removes all religions other than your own.

But hussars already exist!

Why is Austria even in this game. They should have been Poland, and their trait should have went to America and been renamed "Statehood." I may even make the Polish replace them.

But even if I don't, you must realise that the name Hussar was used all over central and eastern Europe. They weren't one specific group of guys.

 

[Krzowwh]

I don't know if you need help on this, but I can try to help with linguistic stuff, like leader translations and whatnot.

 

[Irkalla]

I don't know if you need help on this, but I can try to help with linguistic stuff, like leader translations and whatnot.

What's your native tongue? Mine is English, but I speak Spanish too. I would need a Spanish proofreader, eventually. I'm hoping you speak another language entirely, though.

And thank you for stepping up!

 

[Krzowwh]

What's your native tongue? Mine is English, but I speak Spanish too. I would need a Spanish proofreader, eventually. I'm hoping you speak another language entirely, though.

I am fluent only in English and sort-of Mandarin, and proficient only in Spanish. Not really the languages with the least exposure. But I am interested in the subject of linguistics, and I feel I am able to put together something that is of reasonably good quality. I'd like to believe that it would be at least on par with the official stuff, in any case.

Mostly, I am going to try aiding in old or obscure languages, where there is less possibility of a native speaker who can help most successfully. And judging from what civilizations you're developing currently, I think this will most often be the case.

If you want an example, I have reworked your intro dialogue for Eannatum. I do not know or am certain that what I have is correct, but merely that it is my interpretation of Sumerian grammar based on my understanding thus far. I tried to follow Sumerological practices, but I am not experienced with the language, so please point out possible errors.

Silim lukurra inaduge
silim lukur-ra i-na-b-dug-en
greetings foreigner-DAT 3SG-3M.DAT-3N.OO-do-1SG.S
Greetings to the foreigner to him it do I
I greet he who is the foreigner

Ĝa me, Eannatum me
ĝa-e me-en, eannatum me-en
1SG-ERG be-1SG.S, Enneatum be-1SG.S
I am I, I am Enneatum
I indeed am myself Enneatum

Ensi Lagaš, En Kienĝi, Lugal Kalamma
ensik lagaš-ak, en kienĝir-ak, lugal kalam-ak
ruler Lagash-GEN, lord land-lord-native-GEN, king land-GEN
Ruler of Lagash, Lord of the land of the native lords, King of the land
Ruler of Lagash, Lord of Sumer, King of (all) the lands (of Sumer/Mesopotamia)

Inim ḫamabe
inim ḫa-ma-e-b-ˀe-en
word MOD-1SG.DAT-2SG-3N.OO-do:IPFV-2SG.S
The words shall to me you it do you
You shall speak (your words) to me

 

[Irkalla]

I am fluent only in English and sort-of Mandarin, and proficient only in Spanish. Not really the languages with the least exposure. But I am interested in the subject of linguistics, and I feel I am able to put together something that is of reasonably good quality. I'd like to believe that it would be at least on par with the official stuff, in any case.

Mostly, I am going to try aiding in old or obscure languages, where there is less possibility of a native speaker who can help most successfully. And judging from what civilizations you're developing currently, I think this will most often be the case.

If you want an example, I have reworked your intro dialogue for Eannatum. I do not know or am certain that what I have is correct, but merely that it is my interpretation of Sumerian grammar based on my understanding thus far. I tried to follow Sumerological practices, but I am not experienced with the language, so please point out possible errors.

That Sumerian sounds a lot like stuff I read. It's passable. However, I don't think voice is going to be possible unless one of two things happens.

1. We find a way to break out of the GameData table with SQL scripting
2. I choose to overwrite a civ

I actually have a hunch of breaking out with Lua... If I can read a variable from the database, why can't I set it? Probably because what I'm accessing with Lua is just a carbon copy of the DB.

oh, and when I was writing it out, I actually forgot that you had to invoke the verb. Verb, to object it(the verb) subject does. Also, isn't foreigner a bad word of sorts? Doesn't it imply a lack of civilization?

And also, do you know much about spoken Sumerian? I'm sure the Akkadians would have made a note of how they talked. Like, what's the speaking pace? I always assumed it was choppy and unnatural sounding (from my point of view.)

Lastly, I'm going to make a religion for the Sumerians. I'm thinking of calling it "Inimdu" or "Inimdug." The word, while heterographically heteronymic with the Akkadian word Salimu, means the same the same as it. This word is cognate with the Hebrew word Shalom, and the Arabic root S-L-M. There are two places we meet words derived from the Arabic root S-L-M. The first is as-Salamu Alaykum. The second, is Islam. And guess what? Inimdug and Islam both have the exact same meaning. "Voluntary peace/submission to the god." More simply, the two words can be taken to mean "Peace between god and man."

Thus, Inimdug is the closest word we have to a Sumerian word for religion. While religion was such a basic concept that the Sumerians had failed to name their own, this is a word that we can safely name their religion and everyone will know who we're talking about.

What do you think?

And with all this said, I'd like to request that we move the Sumerian discussion to its own thread in New Civilizations. I'll ignore and report for moving any future Sumerian discussion here

 

[Genghis.Khan]

for the portuguese translations count on me. Think Im better than Google Tradutor

 

[Irkalla]

for the portuguese translations count on me. Think Im better than Google Tradutor

Nao traduz anything to English.

Btw, in case you don't know, Tradutor = Translator. Traduzir = Translate

 

[Genghis.Khan]

Yeah, it's not the first time I mistaken it...

btw My test in Google Translater

Kneel before me, John II King of Portugal and all of its' holdings

Ajoelhe-se diante de mim, D. João II Rei de Portugal e todas as suas participações

What this would sound in English:

Kneel in front of me, John II King of Portugal and all it's participations

The accurate translation (with some Medieval Portuguese):

Ajoelha-te à minha presença, Dom João II, El-Rey de Portugal e de todas as suas colónias/possesões

 

[Yum Caax]

What's your native tongue? Mine is English, but I speak Spanish too. I would need a Spanish proofreader, eventually. I'm hoping you speak another language entirely, though.

And thank you for stepping up!

If you want, I can provide translations and perhaps even historical information on Judea/Israel (since I, unfortunately, am forced to study and even know it). Hebrew is also my second language, and if needed, I can "use" Biblical Hebrew as well.

 

[Irkalla]

If you want, I can provide translations and perhaps even historical information on Judea/Israel (since I, unfortunately, am forced to study and even know it). Hebrew is also my second language, and if needed, I can "use" Biblical Hebrew as well.

What's wrong with knowing the history of your land, my levantine friend?

Speaking of Canaan, what do you think of this icon for the Phoenicians? I couldn't decide between a cedar and a murex shell, so I just went with what looked better.

 

[Yum Caax]

What's wrong with knowing the history of your land, my levantine friend?

That it's not my land. But this is just my nonsense part, blabbering on and on about my anti-nationalistic views.

Speaking of Canaan, what do you think of this icon for the Phoenicians? I couldn't decide between a cedar and a murex shell, so I just went with what looked better.

I really like it, actually. But what do you think about a Phoenician kaph? Or is it too shallow?

 

[Irkalla]

That it's not my land. But this is just my nonsense part, blabbering on and on about my anti-nationalistic views.



I really like it, actually. But what do you think about a Phoenician kaph? Or is it too shallow?

I don't think it's nearly as identifiable with the phoenicians as aleph is. That, and I don't really like using writing for symbols. Doesn't mean I haven't done it before. For example, I'll be using writing as a symbol for the new religion I'm adding as part of the Sumerians. But sometimes, writing is the only way to describe a religion with a logo. Islam, Hinduism, and Confucianism are good examples of this. I wouldn't have used the crescent to represent Islam, but the name of God. A crescent CAN be seen as an icon by some. Plus it's arabia's civ icon.

 

[killmeplease]

No Assyrians... But you´re rigt. It would be the 1000th Mesoptamian Civ

1000th? there are 3 so far as i know (sumer, babylon, phoenicia)
assyria had a long history, its known for its numerous military innovations as well as for its unique art, and it is the worlds first superpower, it deserves to be in the game much more than those "king for a day" portugal or poland.

At its height Assyria conquered the 25th dynasty Egypt (and expelled its Nubian/Kushite dynasty) as well as Babylonia, Chaldea, Elam, Media, Persia, Ararat (Armenia), Phoenicia, Aramea/Syria, Phrygia, the Neo-Hittites, Hurrians, northern Arabia, Gutium, Israel, Judah, Moab, Edom, Corduene, Cilicia, Mannea and parts of Ancient Greece (such as Cyprus), and defeated and/or exacted tribute from Scythia, Cimmeria, Lydia, Nubia, Ethiopia and others.

uu could be "siege archers" or how'd you name them - composite bowman replacement

higher combat strength and starts with the cover promotion
another uu - siege tower (assyrians were the first to use it)
or ub - nineveh palace, a palace replacement with a culture and science bonuses.
leader - ashurbanipal.
trait - brutal rule (2x city razing speed, 2x shorter rebellion period, city-states pay 2x amount of tribute and puppet cities produce less unhappiness)

 

[turingmachine]

What's wrong with knowing the history of your land, my levantine friend?

Speaking of Canaan, what do you think of this icon for the Phoenicians? I couldn't decide between a cedar and a murex shell, so I just went with what looked better.

I don't really like it. First, I don't think you can really do Phoenicia and not use a shade of purple as the primary color. Secondly, the shell doesn't really say Phoenicia to me. I look at that and think a Polynesian type civ. Personally, I would use a silhouette of a Phoenician boat or, and I know you said you don't like letters but given the significance of the Phoenician alphabet in history, the alf or kaf letter.

 

[Irkalla]

I don't really like it. First, I don't think you can really do Phoenicia and not use a shade of purple as the primary color. Secondly, the shell doesn't really say Phoenicia to me. I look at that and think a Polynesian type civ. Personally, I would use a silhouette of a Phoenician boat or, and I know you said you don't like letters but given the significance of the Phoenician alphabet in history, the alf or kaf letter.

Protip: I used Tyrian Purple. I think you're confusing purple and violet. Purple is a shade of violet, as is tyrian purple, but tyrian purple isn't really a shade of purple. It's more a shade of red.

I used the shell because it's the shell of a Murex, which is entirely what the phoenician economy was based on. It's what made them have the upper hand in commerce. It's where they got their "purple" dye from. Dye from murex was prized thus because it, instead of fading, would intensify when exposed to the sun over time.

The problem is, I just asked a "Phoenician Lebanese" who he thought it represented and he had no idea, so I probably will move to using Aleph as the logo. Also, Phoenician Alphabet? I'm pretty sure it works the same way as Arabic or Hebrew... Id est, not an alphabet. It's an abjad, in contrast to an alphabet (Latin, Greek, Cyrillic) or an abugida (Ethiopic.)

 

[Irkalla]

1000th? there are 3 so far as i know (sumer, babylon, phoenicia)
assyria had a long history, its known for its numerous military innovations as well as for its unique art, and it is the worlds first superpower, it deserves to be in the game much more than those "king for a day" portugal or poland.

At its height Assyria conquered the 25th dynasty Egypt (and expelled its Nubian/Kushite dynasty) as well as Babylonia, Chaldea, Elam, Media, Persia, Ararat (Armenia), Phoenicia, Aramea/Syria, Phrygia, the Neo-Hittites, Hurrians, northern Arabia, Gutium, Israel, Judah, Moab, Edom, Corduene, Cilicia, Mannea and parts of Ancient Greece (such as Cyprus), and defeated and/or exacted tribute from Scythia, Cimmeria, Lydia, Nubia, Ethiopia and others.

uu could be "siege archers" or how'd you name them - composite bowman replacement

higher combat strength and starts with the cover promotion
another uu - siege tower (assyrians were the first to use it)
or ub - nineveh palace, a palace replacement with a culture and science bonuses.
leader - ashurbanipal.
trait - brutal rule (2x city razing speed, 2x shorter rebellion period, city-states pay 2x amount of tribute and puppet cities produce less unhappiness)

I know Assyria was VERY relevant (and still is, the assyrian people are extant to this day!)

The stats you've put together put them in the same role as the Huns, though. They might be one of those that I'd only release on Vanilla in the state that you have them.

I think the trait is mediocre. I think the first two parts need to go, but I like the last part about city states paying 2x tribute.

I think the siege tower would be an EXCELLENT unique unit. It would reduce cities' defensive bonus from having walls. However, I think because this unit would be so powerful, that the assyrians should sacrifice a unit to have this. I'm thinking... Chariot Archer. But would that really hurt anyone? I almost never use Chariot Archers, they're just so clumsy to me. Maybe swordsmen?

But yeah, both of those UUs tie really well into how Assyria has this territorial explosion.

Also, why Ashurbanipal? Why not Esarhaddon? Ashurbanipals reign, though it started well, ended in internal strife that only worsened after his death, which would end in the fall of Nineveh, Egypt breaking away, and the rise of Babylon... again.

 

[killmeplease]

I think the trait is mediocre. I think the first two parts need to go, but I like the last part about city states paying 2x tribute.

yeah pretty resembles huns or mongols with their city-state ability
their trait should be linked with how they used to overcome resistance of conquered peoples... maybe +1 global happiness per razed city?

I think the siege tower would be an EXCELLENT unique unit. It would reduce cities' defensive bonus from having walls. However, I think because this unit would be so powerful, that the assyrians should sacrifice a unit to have this. I'm thinking... Chariot Archer. But would that really hurt anyone? I almost never use Chariot Archers, they're just so clumsy to me. Maybe swordsmen?

i'd better buffed the chariot archer) though its a civ pak so standard units should not be touched i assume. replacing swordsmen is ok too i think and even better. assyria used chariots widely as any other mediterranian state before the bronze age collapse but isnt known for its swordsmen afaik. siege archers could be given iron requirement in turn to balance their high stats c5strength:12/12 maybe? - plus cover) and be a swordsman-bowman universal soldier; but they will require too many techs in this case. Maybe swap techs for them and towers? so towers will be available with constructions (what makes scence) and archers with iron working. about a special ability for the tower, what way should it reduce walls bonus? maybe, it should damage an adjacent city just how a citadel damages enemy units, on per-turn basis.

Also, why Ashurbanipal? Why not Esarhaddon? Ashurbanipals reign, though it started well, ended in internal strife that only worsened after his death, which would end in the fall of Nineveh, Egypt breaking away, and the rise of Babylon... again.

ashurbanipal seems more interesting i think as he is famous for his clay tablet library and favour of arts.. he waged wars pretty well too.

 

[JFD]

@Irkalla I for one really like the icon, but I thought Tyrian Purple was a little redder than that; less pink. In any case, I hope you take the opportunity to use Pheonicia's dye-based economy as inspiration for the UA. I really look forward to your interpretation.