Wonder Elimination Thread

[JJOne]

Angkor Wat 20
Big Ben 21
Brandenburg Gate 0 - OUT
Chichen Itza 22
Cristo Redentor 18
Eiffel Tower 20
Himeji Castle 23
Machu Picchu 21
Notre Dame 20
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 20
Statue of Liberty 22
Stonehenge 28
Sydney Opera House 16
Taj Mahal 18
Forbidden Palace 21
Great Library 21
Great Lighthouse 18
Great Wall 14
Hagia Sophia 21
Hanging Gardens 12
Kremlin 16
Louvre 20
Oracle 21
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 27

+ Great Library - GS points and civil service or steel. What could you want more?
- Branderburg Gate - 1 GG? One golden age for 3-6 turns? Too late, not interested.

 

[TM Moot]

Angkor Wat 20
Big Ben 21
Chichen Itza 22
Cristo Redentor 18
Eiffel Tower 20
Himeji Castle 23
Machu Picchu 19
Notre Dame 20
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 20
Statue of Liberty 22
Stonehenge 28
Sydney Opera House 16
Taj Mahal 18
Forbidden Palace 21
Great Library 21
Great Lighthouse 18
Great Wall 14
Hagia Sophia 21
Hanging Gardens 12
Kremlin 16
Louvre 20
Oracle 21
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 28

'Mids +1, just love the GE points
MPiccho -2, keep forgetting to build my city near a mountain!

(oh, btw, this thread could go on for quite some time....might be worth reducing all scores??)

 

[Camikaze]

Moderator Action: Thanks to those that have provided reasoning with their votes.

Any further votes that aren't accompanied by reasoning will be warned/infracted.

 

[Hasire]

Angkor Wat 20
Big Ben 21
Chichen Itza 22
Cristo Redentor 18
Eiffel Tower 20
Himeji Castle 23
Machu Picchu 19
Notre Dame 20
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 20
Statue of Liberty 22
Stonehenge 29
Sydney Opera House 16
Taj Mahal 18
Forbidden Palace 21
Great Library 21
Great Lighthouse 18
Great Wall 14
Hagia Sophia 21
Hanging Gardens 12
Kremlin 16
Louvre 20
Oracle 21
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 26
Who actually bypasses the NC to get the pyramids, if you can? Stonehenge is worth it for a culture game, and you usually can't get the oracle without a meritocracy GE, and who wants to do freedom for a culture game?

 

[Mods]

Angkor Wat 20
Big Ben 22 +1
Chichen Itza 22
Cristo Redentor 18
Eiffel Tower 20
Himeji Castle 23
Machu Picchu 19
Notre Dame 20
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 20
Statue of Liberty 22
Stonehenge 29
Sydney Opera House 16
Taj Mahal 18
Forbidden Palace 21
Great Library 19 -2
Great Lighthouse 18
Great Wall 14
Hagia Sophia 21
Hanging Gardens 12
Kremlin 16
Louvre 20
Oracle 21
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 26

Just the giant amount of times I had 1-10 turns left on the great library before an AI built it makes me cry It just seems impossible to built
I've never failed building big ben though and it's always useful, rush bought nukes coming up!

 

[mrlovanhey]

Angkor Wat 20
Big Ben 22
Chichen Itza 22
Cristo Redentor 18
Eiffel Tower 20
Himeji Castle 23
Machu Picchu 19
Notre Dame 20
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 20
Statue of Liberty 22
Stonehenge 29
Sydney Opera House 14
Taj Mahal 18
Forbidden Palace 21
Great Library 19
Great Lighthouse 18
Great Wall 14
Hagia Sophia 21
Hanging Gardens 12
Kremlin 16
Louvre 20
Oracle 21
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 27

Who actually bypasses the NC to get the pyramids, if you can? Stonehenge is worth it for a culture game, and you usually can't get the oracle without a meritocracy GE, and who wants to do freedom for a culture game?

I do, actually. I find that the Pyramids are good for any kind of game. When my workers can give me faster access to sellable luxuries, faster roads and faster tile repair, I just have a better and more fun game. I will make up for Stonehenge's culture later.

The Opera House does too little too late in the game and building it is not really that necessary for me.

 

[civnoob13]

(oh, btw, this thread could go on for quite some time....might be worth reducing all scores??)

This is only a few more than the UU elimination thread, which is just about over.I figured we might as well make it the same.

Angkor Wat 18
Big Ben 22
Chichen Itza 22
Cristo Redentor 18
Eiffel Tower 20
Himeji Castle 23
Machu Picchu 19
Notre Dame 20
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 20
Statue of Liberty 22
Stonehenge 30
Sydney Opera House 14
Taj Mahal 18
Forbidden Palace 21
Great Library 19
Great Lighthouse 18
Great Wall 14
Hagia Sophia 21
Hanging Gardens 12
Kremlin 16
Louvre 20
Oracle 21
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 27

Stonehenge is great both for a cultural victory and for grabbing early SPs earlier. However, Angkor Wat is nearly useless to me. By the time I can build it I have usually already settled my main cities. Of course I will settle a few more but there is little pressure for faster border growth, and 25% better is barely noticeable.

Remember to give a reason for your decisions!

 

[TM Moot]

This is only a few more than the UU elimination thread, which is just about over.I figured we might as well make it the same.

and that went to 36 pages..!!

civ6 will be out before this gets done

 

[elprofesor]

Bah, it only lasted 3 weeks... Don't sweat about it!

And my vote for today:

Angkor Wat 18
Big Ben 22
Chichen Itza 22
Cristo Redentor 18
Eiffel Tower 20
Himeji Castle 23
Machu Picchu 19
Notre Dame 20
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 21
Statue of Liberty 22
Stonehenge 30
Sydney Opera House 12
Taj Mahal 18
Forbidden Palace 21
Great Library 19
Great Lighthouse 18
Great Wall 14
Hagia Sophia 21
Hanging Gardens 12
Kremlin 16
Louvre 20
Oracle 21
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 27

Sistine Chapel gives a very nice culture boost for the Renaissance, which is nice for culture victories (it only "obsoletes" with radio towers and free speech), and also for filling the gaps in your empire so that Gengis Khan doesn't settle right in the middle of it.
On the other hand, the Sydney Opera House isn't really impressive. One single SP doesn't make a difference by itself, and it will rarely save much time for a culture victory. I always end up building it because I can, not because I need it (as opposed to, say, the Hanging Gardens, that I'd be willing to build if it wasn't gone so early, and if the early game wasn't already crowded enough with things to do).

PS: I'm okay with reasoning my votes anyway, since I am rather talky in these fora (and since it will make people think before voting); but why is this the first elimination thread where we have a moderator directly asking for it?

 

[Camikaze]

PS: I'm okay with reasoning my votes anyway, since I am rather talky in these fora (and since it will make people think before voting); but why is this the first elimination thread where we have a moderator directly asking for it?

Moderator Action: Firstly, DO NOT discuss moderator actions in public. First rule of Fight Club and all that (although we have some others too ). Even if you are not contesting the action, we are very strict with this rule so please only discuss moderator actions via PM with the moderator in question, in this case me (and you are very welcome to do so).

Secondly, this rule was noted as a rule for all future elimination threads in a previous thread, and the moderator action here serves as a reminder that this is a condition of this thread remaining open; we don't allow spam threads, and requiring reasoning prevents it from being one.

 

[eris]

Angkor Wat 18
Big Ben 22
Chichen Itza 23
Cristo Redentor 18
Eiffel Tower 20
Himeji Castle 23
Machu Picchu 19
Notre Dame 20
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 21
Statue of Liberty 22
Stonehenge 30
Sydney Opera House 11
Taj Mahal 18
Forbidden Palace 21
Great Library 19
Great Lighthouse 18
Great Wall 14
Hagia Sophia 21
Hanging Gardens 12
Kremlin 16
Louvre 20
Oracle 21
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 27

down Sydney Opera House has been available too late in my games to make any really significant difference. I have saved a few turns on a Cultural Victory, but by that time culture progress is usually already pretty fast.

up Chichen Itza because I look for and use Golden Ages as much as possible. I have had a few games where military expansion caused happiness to be a challenge, and even then I really appreciated extending the few Golden Ages I got through Great People.

 

[The_Quasar]

Angkor Wat 18
Big Ben 22
Chichen Itza 23
Cristo Redentor 18
Eiffel Tower 20
Himeji Castle 24
Machu Picchu 19
Notre Dame 20
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 21
Statue of Liberty 22
Stonehenge 30
Sydney Opera House 9
Taj Mahal 18
Forbidden Palace 21
Great Library 19
Great Lighthouse 18
Great Wall 14
Hagia Sophia 21
Hanging Gardens 12
Kremlin 16
Louvre 20
Oracle 21
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 27

Himeji Castle, because it is so powerful on defence.
Sydney Opera House, because it comes too late in the game to be useful

 

[Kevin J]

Angkor Wat 18
Big Ben 22
Chichen Itza 25
Cristo Redentor 18
Eiffel Tower 20
Himeji Castle 24
Machu Picchu 19
Notre Dame 20
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 21
Statue of Liberty 22
Stonehenge 30
Sydney Opera House 9
Taj Mahal 18
Forbidden Palace 21
Great Library 19
Great Lighthouse 18
Great Wall 14
Hagia Sophia 21
Hanging Gardens 10
Kremlin 16
Louvre 20
Oracle 21
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 27

On marathon games, you'll often get around ten great generals - Chichen Itza makes each of those worth 50% more for Golden Ages. If I go with a production-focused opening, I'll typically have a GE ready right around the time the research is done as well. It also works well in those games you're able to get the Great Library hard built, then use the meritocracy GE for it. It's a very expensive wonder for the time it's available, however.

Hanging Gardens sound decent in theory, but simply put, the AI always builds this very early. In order to get Hanging Gardens, you'd need to beeline Construction - which I'd only find viable playing as the Inca, or in an ICS game.

 

[oledavy]

Angkor Wat 18
Big Ben 22
Chichen Itza 25
Cristo Redentor 18
Eiffel Tower 20
Himeji Castle 24
Machu Picchu 17
Notre Dame 20
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 21
Statue of Liberty 22
Stonehenge 30
Sydney Opera House 9
Taj Mahal 18
Forbidden Palace 21
Great Library 19
Great Lighthouse 18
Great Wall 14
Hagia Sophia 21
Hanging Gardens 11
Kremlin 16
Louvre 20
Oracle 21
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 27

Wow, this is a rally tough choice. Wonders I usually target are Chichen Itza, Stonehenge, the Taj Mahal and the Great Library. However these generally require a specific game type to leverage them the best way (i.e. - popping lots of GP for multiple + 50% golden ages). The best wonder I've found in my emperor/immortal games is generally the Hanging Gardens. Despite all the hate it's gotten on this threat, it is the best 'general purpose' early wonder imho. On the higher difficulties the AI always has a ridiculous population edge on you, so I find that this wonder helps even the gap and jump-starts your 2-3 cities you found after your capital, which are usually size 1-3 about this time. The additional happiness covers the extra population.

Worst goes to Machu Picchu - the bonus provided by it is marginal unless you're running a large empire. The situation for building it (city must be within two tiles of a mountain) can make it annoying to find a place to construct. And finally, and this may be just me, I find the graphic representation of it on the map to be really an eyesore - it looks like it cut the mountain in half.

As a side note, I never really considered Big Ben a priority Wonder, but reading this thread, I feel I may have underestimated it. I feel a little shortsighted, as I never considered combining it with the unit/building purchase cost reducing policies in the Autocracy and Commerce Trees.

 

[Man vs Civ AI]

Angkor Wat 18
Big Ben 22
Chichen Itza 25
Cristo Redentor 18
Eiffel Tower 20
Himeji Castle 24
Machu Picchu 15
Notre Dame 20
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 21
Statue of Liberty 22
Stonehenge 30
Sydney Opera House 9
Taj Mahal 18
Forbidden Palace 21
Great Library 19
Great Lighthouse 18
Great Wall 14
Hagia Sophia 21
Hanging Gardens 11
Kremlin 16
Louvre 20
Oracle 21
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 28

+1 for Pyramids. Most of my game is based on getting workers early, developing luxuries, chopping forests, building farms and mines.
-2 for Machu Picchu. Doesn't seem worth the effort to build it, and need to have a city next to mountains (which don't provide any resources).

 

[fmlizard2]

Angkor Wat 18
Big Ben 22
Chichen Itza 26
Cristo Redentor 18
Eiffel Tower 20
Himeji Castle 24
Machu Picchu 15
Notre Dame 19
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 21
Statue of Liberty 22
Stonehenge 30
Sydney Opera House 9
Taj Mahal 18
Forbidden Palace 21
Great Library 19
Great Lighthouse 18
Great Wall 14
Hagia Sophia 21
Hanging Gardens 11
Kremlin 16
Louvre 20
Oracle 21
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 28

I went Chichen Itza, since I am a major golden age nut. I'm forever spending great people on them once I reach the industrial era, except for scientists and engineers. I also try to make sure I get Louvre and Taj Mahal, so I get my money's worth. I do find it is a frustrating wonder re: the AI. I have seen it popped as early as 800 BC and as late as 1000 AD+.

Glad to see Pyramids getting love. I've always been a fan but never hear about them around here.

Not sure I get the love for Stonehenge. It was huge for me pre-.217, but now that early culture is much easier to get and wonders are somewhat more costly I never get around to it.

I voted down Notre Dame. It may not be the worst of them all, but someone needed to call it out. +5 happiness is a very mediocre benefit for a mid-cost wonder, and only +1 great merchant points is one of the lamest GP bonuses as well.

 

[G0liath]

Machu Picchu 15
Notre Dame 20
Pentagon 22
Sistine Chapel 21
Statue of Liberty 22
Stonehenge 30
Sydney Opera House 7
Taj Mahal 18
Forbidden Palace 21
Great Library 19
Great Lighthouse 18
Great Wall 14
Hagia Sophia 21
Hanging Gardens 11
Kremlin 16
Louvre 20
Oracle 21
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 28

Opera House goes down as it is too late in the game to have much impact.

Pentagon goes up as it helps with the massive amounts of upgrading required to keep an army technologically superior in the end game. (late in the game as well, but its timing is perfect: just when units are constantly in need of being upgraded and just when the price tags start to take off)

 

[civnoob13]

Can you add back in everything above Pichu for copypasting purposes?

 

[bcaiko]

Machu Picchu 15
Notre Dame 20
Pentagon 22
Sistine Chapel 21
Statue of Liberty 22
Stonehenge 30
Sydney Opera House 7
Taj Mahal 18
Forbidden Palace 21
Great Library 19
Great Lighthouse 18
Great Wall 10 (-2)
Hagia Sophia 21
Hanging Gardens 11
Kremlin 16
Louvre 20
Oracle 21
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 29 (+1)

Pyramids is a fantastic early wonder that will save you a ton of hammers on Workers down the line. And the Great Engineer points are icing on the cake.

I've seen the Great Wall used successfully to some effect, but it being the only Wonder that is superceded by a (fairly early) technology makes me super sadface. Until that's corrected, I don't see much point in building it.

 

[civnoob13]

Add the wonders that the person above missed, please.

ATTENTION - please can the next poster include the wonders above Machu Picchu that have gone in the last two posts