Wonder Elimination Thread

[Tabarnak]

My personnal list of remaining wonders :

1) Chichen Itza
2) Oracle
3) Notre Dame
4) Petra
5) Machu Picchu
6) Leaning Tower of Pisa
7) Hanging Gardens

I try to get CI before the first plenty happiness bucket for more power. Oracle is a must for fast science/diplo victories. Notre-Dame is the most versatile wonder around. Petra is situationnal, but indeed very powerful. Machu can give quite a lot of gold but situational again.. Pisa is nice for gpp rate and free gp(usually a ge for either PT or Taj later--->works well with CI). HG is the weakest of all. I can get food from many other ressources, enough to make this an easy skip.

 

[Buccaneer]

Chichen Itza 12
Hanging Gardens 14
Leaning Tower of Pisa 24
Machu Picchu 4
Notre Dame 9
Oracle 18
Petra 16

Oracle can be a game changer, knowing how the early game can dictate the outcome. Petra is just to situational on a specific terrain.

 

[DeathFace]

Chichen Itza 12
Hanging Gardens 11
Leaning Tower of Pisa 25
Machu Picchu 4
Notre Dame 9
Oracle 18
Petra 16


I still don't understand why the HG is so highly valued. Being available that early on isn't useful to me since I don't grow my cities very much then. I can see the HG being pretty good if it became available somewhere in ale medieval era, in which I really start to grow my cities, but it isn't.

I don't care if the Leaning Tower's GP isn't really "free" it's still useful and the GP production boost makes the GP cost increase worth the wonder.

 

[Dogmouth]

My personnal list of remaining wonders :

1) Chichen Itza
2) Oracle
3) Notre Dame
4) Petra
5) Machu Picchu
6) Leaning Tower of Pisa
7) Hanging Gardens

This looks about right to me, although I'd move Hanging Gardens up to 6 and Pisa to 7. It's a really tough call with the first 5, but I usually try for 4-6 golden ages post-CI, which means it's worth 2-3 golden ages + happiness. That's pretty sweet. On the other hand, Oracle is really nice for every type of game and ND's happiness boost always comes at just the right time.

 

[Xger]

Chichen Itza 12
Hanging Gardens 11
Leaning Tower of Pisa 25
Machu Picchu 5
Notre Dame 6
Oracle 18
Petra 16

I am sad to see the assaults on Machu Picchu. It just scales so well and gives the always useful gold. There are worse wonders....on that note, Notre Dame is just a flat bonus on happiness that flows readily.

 

[pensivepeppers]

Chichen Itza 12
Hanging Gardens 11
Leaning Tower of Pisa 25
Machu Piccu 5
Notre Dame 3 (-3)
Oracle 18 (+1)
Petra 16

ND is just very unappealing to me, not very helpful.

You can't go wrong with the Oracle, easy policy/easy culture

 

[Kurtbob]

Chichen Itza 12
Hanging Gardens 11
Leaning Tower of Pisa 25
Machu Piccu 2
Notre Dame 3
Oracle 18
Petra 17

Petra Desert Hills
Macchu is my least favorite of the above list; I would much rather have any of the others.

 

[Pouakai]

Chichen Itza 12
Hanging Gardens 11
Leaning Tower of Pisa 25
Machu Piccu 3
Notre Dame 3
Oracle 15
Petra 17

Machu Picchu is a great trade wonder, I often found a mountain city just to get it. It usually boosts my gold at least twice

The Oracle for previously mentioned reasons

 

[Tachii]

Chichen Itza 12
Hanging Gardens 11
Leaning Tower of Pisa 22 (-3)
Machu Piccu 3
Notre Dame 3
Oracle 15
Petra 18 (+1)

:X The garden building is often a building I neglect unless I'm going for a culture win. The Pisa's bonus is also something I'm not really into other than the free GP. But I usually just end up popping a GE so I can rush for PT. I've never used it to get a GG or Admiral, nor do I go for a Great Artist and Merchant, unless at least 2+ CS want me to pop one.

Petra because I just had a crazy spot with Sweden for my 4th city - who is now going to beat my Capitol in hammers. Making a 4th city into a powerhouse? My god.

 

[I_qua_I]

Chichen Itza 12
Hanging Gardens 11
Leaning Tower of Pisa 22
Machu Piccu 3
Notre Dame 0 (-3)
Oracle 16 (+1)
Petra 18

Oracle: very useful for any strategy
Notre Dame: Never need it and never wish I had it.

 

[krozman]

Chichen Itza 9 (-3)
Hanging Gardens 11
Leaning Tower of Pisa 22
Machu Piccu 3
Oracle 16
Petra 19 (+1)

I play on Immortal, and if I have a capital worthy of Petra and I get it done, it's pretty much an automatic win with my chosen victory condition. No other wonder can do it like Petra. Itza is never really built b/c there are other higher priority wonders that are better in that era (i.e. oracle) and by the time you reach industrial era the happiness bonus is an afterthought.

 

[knighterrant81]

I think a lot of folks still like some of these Wonders in G+K that were great in Vanilla, and aren't realizing they just aren't as good as they used to be. Civ tends to reward doing the same thing repeatedly, and you might not realize you are getting less of a benefit if you try to play the same way as you did in Vanilla.

Are you sitting on a GE from Pisa for 20+ turns? Or buying something that isn't pre-nerf PT? You could have generated that GE on your own, and saved the hammers for something else.

You can't double up on RAs with PT and Rationalism anymore (at least not nearly as early as you used to be able to). PT is on another tech track from Pisa, which means you have to beeline both, and neither are on particularly useful tracks, unlike Vanilla where they were both on the Science track so it was a no-brainer to beeline education if you were going for anything resembling a science victory (it still probably is, but at least now you don't get two wonders for the price of one on the same research track).

Hanging Gardens - The bonus is still good, but it frees up much fewer tiles for production than it used to. You have to make up all that production you put into it, and you are on an odd tech path to beat the AI to it. It is still an amazing wonder, but nothing like the Vanilla version.

@Slyvnn: What kind of maps are you starting? I think just about every ancient start, standard size, continents map (no advanced setup) I've done in G+K, I've hit a good place for Petra somewhere within the first 4-5 cities I place/conquer. If you're starting on water maps or wet climate, you'll run into less deserts and Petra is less useful.

Also, Petra is powerful even if you haven't built it yet. Before, you might have avoided desert like the plague. Now - you see a nice resource plopped in the middle of the desert? Go for it! The potential of Petra is just as powerful as the actual wonder - the potential to build Petra makes desert useful terrain to build cities, which opens up large swaths that were nearly uninhabitable before. Now, only arctic zones are truly a waste, and even there there's a pantheon you can nab to help you out. Petra basically sits there and says "you may now use deserts", which can really help city placement. Petra isn't "oh if I have some deserts I might build this" its "go and scout for the nearest desert you can find, put a city down, and build this thing!"

 

[bbobb23]

Chichen Itza 9
Hanging Gardens 11
Leaning Tower of Pisa 22
Machu Picchu 0 (-3)
Oracle 17 (+1)
Petra 19

Machu Picchu: Although you are quite likely to find a mountain in the nearby area, I would have to say it is almost the worst wonder left, (I think the worst is the Petra, but I didnt want to downvote it twice in a row)

Oracle: Useful wonder that helps enourmously in a Cultural victory and if planned correctly can beeline you into Patronage

 

[draaibaar]

Chichen Itza 6
Hanging Gardens 11
Leaning Tower of Pisa 22
Oracle 17
Petra 20

Petra: maybe not the best wonder overall (in every setting), but it's the kind of wonder I like to play for.
Chichen Itza: only when I play Darius I would build it.

 

[Slvynn]

Chichen Itza 7
Hanging Gardens 11
Leaning Tower of Pisa 22
Oracle 17
Petra 17

Petra too overstimated
CI should be top 2

 

[Dunduks]

Chichen Itza 7
Hanging Gardens 11
Leaning Tower of Pisa 22
Oracle 18
Petra 14

Bonus SP is good. I love Petra but you need desert for it.

 

[zyx]

Chichen Itza 4
Hanging Gardens 12
Leaning Tower of Pisa 22
Oracle 18
Petra 14

From the above list HG is the wonder I'd like most to have in a game, because of its longterm effect. Chitzen Itza is the wonder I don`t need, never understood, why GA by GP were not doubled.

 

[emblemfire]

Chichen Itza 4
Hanging Gardens 12
Leaning Tower of Pisa 19
Oracle 18
Petra 15

Wait you guys arn't really going to let pisa win are you??? Petra, Oracle or Gardens are all solid wins. But Pisa???

 

[DKRI]

Chichen Itza 5
Hanging Gardens 12
Leaning Tower of Pisa 22
Oracle 18
Petra 11

Cant believe you are downgrading the CI as much. With the new improved golden ages its totally awesome. If I build it, and finishing Freedom, I usually end up having a 70-100 turn golden age during the end game. That is pretty awesome.

Petra, it´s a kick ass wonder if you can find the right spot. Unfortunately, it is also a kick ass wonder for the AI if you don´t. Last game I started out w a marvellous Petra set up, unfortunately the Arabs beat me one turn to Desert folklore, two turns to Petra. I am gonna need some serious anti depressive medication to move on from this.

 

[Slvynn]

Chichen Itza 5
Hanging Gardens 12
Leaning Tower of Pisa 19
Oracle 18
Petra 12

CI/Pisa/HG for top 3
People understimate CI, perhaps different levels / setups of gameplay.....