Wonder Elimination Thread

[Hammer Rabbi]

okay, ill just take this from nefloyd's list then.

Alhambra 19
Big Ben 23
Brandenburg Gate 18
Chichen Itza 24
Eiffel Tower 27
Great Library 21
Great Mosque of Djenne 5
Hagia Sophia 17
Himeji Castle 17
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 32
Leaning Tower of Pisa 27
Louvre 26
Machu Picchu 24
Neuschwanstein Castle 17
Notre Dame 27
Oracle 34
Petra 24
Porcelain Tower 24
Pyramids 21
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 27
Stonehenge 23
Sydney Opera House 6

Petra made desert starts not become re-starts, haha. It is sometimes tough to get but I no longer get peeved at desert starts (just at getting beat on building it).

And HS used to be pure awesomeness in vanilla. It is still useful but so much less so that Im just mad at it not being as awesome as it was in vanilla. If it's your first GP then you arent really going for religion to be very useful. If you are going for religion to be very useful it might not even be your 2nd GP. LtoP which is now appropriately timed in techs is great and what HS should have been in vanilla.

 

[PhilBowles]

Other than the fact that the GL is almost impossible to build on Immortal+

Depending on map size, it can be surprisingly easy to get on Immortal. I've now had quite a few games where I've built a library, and by the time the GL is finally built I would have been able to build it. It's more that the bonus isn't significant enough to be worth the risk - or at least, since it's just a "speed Wonder", not getting it is more critical than investing in and missing, say, Stonehenge or Hanging Gardens. Either you get it and get a moderate science boost, or you don't and you suffer a crippling science delay. As you note, not going for very rarely costs you a tech lead.

I'm also quite unsure why someone said The Pyramids have high priority. It has one of the lowest priorities for an Ancient/Classical wonder,

Me too, I can't recall ever having been beaten to it, and it often isn't taken by an AI until the Renaissance if I pass on building it.

Hubble is just amazing because two Great Scientists helps almost any victory type, but it can just be a real clincher if you're going for Space. Amazing wonder.

Hubble is too late to use the GS for other victory types usefully (if you've gone Satellites instead of the Globalization tech path you're just compensating for bad tech progression to diplo, it comes after the culture techs, and if you're going domination you should have enough of a military advantage by that stage that it's largely irrelevant - and again beelining Satellites isn't a priority).

 

[Tabarnak]

Alhambra 19
Big Ben 23
Brandenburg Gate 18
Chichen Itza 24
Eiffel Tower 27
Great Library 21
Great Mosque of Djenne 5
Hagia Sophia 18
Himeji Castle 17
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 32
Leaning Tower of Pisa 27
Louvre 26
Machu Picchu 24
Neuschwanstein Castle 17
Notre Dame 27
Oracle 34
Petra 24
Porcelain Tower 24
Pyramids 21
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 27
Stonehenge 23
Sydney Opera House 4

SOH : Not useless, but so late in the tech tree to make a difference. No difference for cultural games which is a shame.

HS : I build it sometimes. It gives quite a nice boost for strong religious games. When i beeline for Education it may be in my build order somewhere.

 

[Shadow717]

Alhambra 19
Big Ben 23
Brandenburg Gate 18
Chichen Itza 24
Eiffel Tower 27
Great Library 21
Great Mosque of Djenne 5
Hagia Sophia 16
Himeji Castle 17
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 32
Leaning Tower of Pisa 27
Louvre 26
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 17
Notre Dame 27
Oracle 34
Petra 24
Porcelain Tower 24
Pyramids 21
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 27
Stonehenge 23
Sydney Opera House 4

Downvoting Hagia sophia because I really think it is being overated compared to the Great Mosque. Unless a great prophet is going to be especially usefull at the moment, I consider the Mosque better in every way.

However I'm not upvoting the mosque this time around, instead I think Machu Picchu could use some love. I absoultely love this wonder, I ussually play a wide empire so all that extra trade route gold is a blessing, and the mountain requirement makes it less competitive. (also it looks awesome!)

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

im guessing i couldnt immediately vote 5 more times to reflect the previous 24-hour periods i missed for having not seen this thread, haha. i could wipe out a couple wonders in one fell swoop.

i think it's gonna come down to some that get 50/50 love/hate votes that just cant go away.

 

[bbobb23]

Alhambra 19
Big Ben 23
Brandenburg Gate 18
Chichen Itza 24
Eiffel Tower 27
Great Library 22 (+1)
Great Mosque of Djenne 5
Hagia Sophia 16
Himeji Castle 15 (-2)
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 32
Leaning Tower of Pisa 27
Louvre 26
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 17
Notre Dame 27
Oracle 34
Petra 24
Porcelain Tower 24
Pyramids 21
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 27
Stonehenge 23
Sydney Opera House 4

Great Library: Good for the early tech and the early science is amazing
Himeji Castle: really only good when defending, but when your on the offensive it really isnt that game changing

 

[Peacemongerer]

Himeji Castle: really only good when defending, but when your on the offensive it really isnt that game changing

I actually find that buff to be invaluable on offense bc if you can bait the AI into attacking you in yours lands with what they believe to be a larger army after you DoW them, you can annihilate their forces easily and sweep-in to conquer their poorly defended cities.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

I actually find that buff to be invaluable on offense bc if you can bait the AI into attacking you in yours lands with what they believe to be a larger army after you DoW them, you can annihilate their forces easily and sweep-in to conquer their poorly defended cities.

i also like its +3 culture and GE points, if im not mistaken.

 

[kuukeri]

Alhambra 19
Big Ben 23
Brandenburg Gate 18
Chichen Itza 24
Eiffel Tower 27
Great Library 22
Great Mosque of Djenne 5
Hagia Sophia 16
Himeji Castle 15
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 32
Leaning Tower of Pisa 27
Louvre 26
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 17
Notre Dame 27
Oracle 34
Petra 25 (+1)
Porcelain Tower 24
Pyramids 21
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 27
Stonehenge 23
Sydney Opera House 2 (-2)

Petra can be so awesome sometimes. In my last game (only emperor tought) i went with korea to OCC Science win. Got a pretty awesome desert start with 5 desert hills a couple oasis etc. with the help of artemis, hanging gardens and Petra i had awesome city, with lots of production and food. When i won Science my city was pop 50 and growing every 5 turn and all specialidst slots used. This was in Standard speed and i won little after 300 turns.

Sydney Opera House aint that bad, but i usually dont need it for the playstyle i have, plus its so low on votes, better let it out of its misery .)

 

[DeathFace]

Alhambra 19
Big Ben 23
Brandenburg Gate 18
Chichen Itza 24
Eiffel Tower 27
Great Library 22
Great Mosque of Djenne 3
Hagia Sophia 17
Himeji Castle 15
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 32
Leaning Tower of Pisa 27
Louvre 26
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 17
Notre Dame 27
Oracle 34
Petra 25
Porcelain Tower 24
Pyramids 21
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 27
Stonehenge 23
Sydney Opera House 2

I tend to build HS at just the right time to enhance a religion so I find that valuable. Still not as good as vanilla HS but still good.

Again, GMOD isn't useful to my religion play style.

 

[Dreadnought]

Alhambra 19
Big Ben 23
Brandenburg Gate 18
Chichen Itza 24
Eiffel Tower 27
Great Library 22
Great Mosque of Djenne 3
Hagia Sophia 17
Himeji Castle 15
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 33 +1
Leaning Tower of Pisa 27
Louvre 26
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 17
Notre Dame 27
Oracle 34
Petra 25
Porcelain Tower 24
Pyramids 21
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 27
Stonehenge 23

Sydney Opera House 0 -2



Hubble wins you the Space Race against any other science opponents. Nuff said.

Sydney Opera House comes way too late to make a major difference in the game.

 

[teakbois]

Alhambra 19
Big Ben 23
Brandenburg Gate 18
Chichen Itza 24
Eiffel Tower 27
Great Library 22
Great Mosque of Djenne 3
Hagia Sophia 17
Himeji Castle 13
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 33
Leaning Tower of Pisa 27
Louvre 27
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 17
Notre Dame 27
Oracle 34
Petra 25
Porcelain Tower 24
Pyramids 21
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 27
Stonehenge 23


Himeji Castle just never seems to get built by me

Louvre however gets built almost every game. AI does not seem to prioritize it.

 

[McLovin1022]

Alhambra 19
Big Ben 23
Brandenburg Gate 18
Chichen Itza 24
Eiffel Tower 27
Great Library 22
Great Mosque of Djenne 3
Hagia Sophia 15 (-2)
Himeji Castle 13
Hanging Gardens 32 (+1)
Hubble 33
Leaning Tower of Pisa 27
Louvre 27
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 17
Notre Dame 27
Oracle 34
Petra 25
Porcelain Tower 24
Pyramids 21
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 27
Stonehenge 23

Hanging Gardens- Food is awesome.

Hagia Sophia- Honestly is not terrible but the reason why I voted for it is because of how the Great Prophet still increases the amount of faith for future great prophets and since you get it early is not a huge bonus although is still a good one.

 

[animalguy]

Alhambra 19
Big Ben 23
Brandenburg Gate 18
Chichen Itza 24
Eiffel Tower 27
Great Library 22
Great Mosque of Djenne 1 (-2)
Hagia Sophia 15
Himeji Castle 13
Hanging Gardens 32
Hubble 33
Leaning Tower of Pisa 27
Louvre 27
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 17
Notre Dame 28 (+1)
Oracle 34
Petra 25
Porcelain Tower 24
Pyramids 21
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 27
Stonehenge 23

Great Mosque of Djenne: I find that I never really need to perform a missionary spam in my games so wonder become usless, even the AI's rejected this wonder in my game, with william eventually picking it up but he forget to adopt a religion so it became usless.

Notre Dame: The happiness boost is great, especially if I don't want to base my religious beliefs around happiness and the small faith boost is good in that it can help you purchase more faith buildings like cathedrals and pagodas.

 

[aguliondew]

Alhambra 19
Big Ben 23
Brandenburg Gate 18
Chichen Itza 24
Eiffel Tower 27
Great Library 22
Great Mosque of Djenne 1
Hagia Sophia 15
Himeji Castle 13
Hanging Gardens 32
Hubble 33
Leaning Tower of Pisa 27
Louvre 27
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 17
Notre Dame 28
Oracle 34
Petra 23
Porcelain Tower 25
Pyramids 21
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 27
Stonehenge 23

Petra- desert areas tend to be bad for growth this helps but not by much. Now its like you started in a plains area.

Porcelain tower- great for anyone who wants to be friends with everyone. 50% more from research agreements is a huge advantage. Turns a 2500 late game research agreement into a 3750.

 

[Pouakai]

Alhambra 19
Big Ben 23
Brandenburg Gate 18
Chichen Itza 24
Eiffel Tower 27
Great Library 22
Great Mosque of Djenne 2
Hagia Sophia 15
Himeji Castle 13
Hanging Gardens 32
Hubble 33
Leaning Tower of Pisa 27
Louvre 27
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 17
Notre Dame 28
Oracle 32
Petra 23
Porcelain Tower 25
Pyramids 21
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 27
Stonehenge 23

Djenne: I always try to rush it, incrediably useful when used with the right beliefs
Oracle: Come on, it's just a free SP, nothing useful there.

 

[black213]

Alhambra 19
Big Ben 23
Brandenburg Gate 18
Chichen Itza 24
Eiffel Tower 27
Great Library 23 (+1)
Great Mosque of Djenne 0 (-2)
Hagia Sophia 15
Himeji Castle 13
Hanging Gardens 32
Hubble 33
Leaning Tower of Pisa 27
Louvre 27
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 17
Notre Dame 28
Oracle 32
Petra 23
Porcelain Tower 25
Pyramids 21
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 27
Stonehenge 23

Oh great library, you are my favorite wonder of all time. Bulbing Philosophy with it in G&K and then building the National College is my favorite strategy as a wide empire.
Mosque, you are dead! I never use missionaries, instead I prefer using great prophets for spreading my religion as they are far more powerful.

 

[Flaxton]

Alhambra 19
Big Ben 23
Brandenburg Gate 18
Chichen Itza 24
Eiffel Tower 27
Great Library 21 (-2)
Hagia Sophia 15
Himeji Castle 13
Hanging Gardens 33 (+1)
Hubble 33
Leaning Tower of Pisa 27
Louvre 27
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 17
Notre Dame 28
Oracle 32
Petra 23
Porcelain Tower 25
Pyramids 21
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 27
Stonehenge 23

From the science point of view, HG increases your population = science. I'd rather build a library followed by HG and then NC than the GL. Don't get me wrong the GL is good but not great. I think people are nostalgic over previous versions of Civ.

 

[draaibaar]

Petra- desert areas tend to be bad for growth this helps but not by much. Now its like you started in a plains area.

Desert tiles become plain tiles, true, but you should concentrate on the desert hills: they are the same as grass hills and with Petra they get 1, 1 and 1 extra. Working 6 desert hills gives you the same as hanging gardens and you also have the hammers and the gold.

Oracle: Come on, it's just a free SP, nothing useful there.

Oracle is one of the most popular wonders while the Terracotta Army is regarded as garbage: but both give you a kick on the social policy tree: The Oracle immediately and the Terracotta Army gradually. I'm too lazy to calculate which one is best but the difference in appreciation seems not to be justified to me.

 

[kingoglow]

Alhambra 19
Big Ben 23
Brandenburg Gate 18
Chichen Itza 24
Eiffel Tower 27
Great Library 21
Hagia Sophia 13 (-2)
Himeji Castle 13
Hanging Gardens 33
Hubble 33
Leaning Tower of Pisa 27
Louvre 27
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 18 (+1)
Notre Dame 28
Oracle 32
Petra 23
Porcelain Tower 25
Pyramids 21
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 27
Stonehenge 23


Voting is more difficult now that many wonders have been taken out.

Neuschwanstein Castle - love this wonder. I always go right side honor and always have castles in all my cities. After building the wonder, hover over a castle and your smile will spread so wdie looking at all the bonuses you are receiving.

Hagia Sophia - Now that GMoD has been taken out, I am on to my campaign against HS. My problem with HS is the same I have with GMoD. The wonders are place at a point in the tech tree where I am rapidly increasing my BPT and I am building other, more useful, stuff across my empire. Never want it, never build it.