Wonder Elimination Thread

Chichen Itza 27
Hanging Gardens 28
Leaning Tower of Pisa 28
Louvre 6
Machu Picchu 22
Neuschwanstein Castle 11
Notre Dame 32
Oracle 20
Petra 20
Porcelain Tower 24

Seriously, I just LOVE N. Castle!

About the Oracle... While I usually build it, it is the worst wonder of the above...
I mean, receiving a free SP is nice, but not as nice as, lets say, a desert powerhouse, extra-food in a city, free great persons or huge bonus per castle built.
 
Chichen Itza 27
Hanging Gardens 28
Leaning Tower of Pisa 28
Louvre 6
Machu Picchu 23
Neuschwanstein Castle 11
Notre Dame 32
Oracle 17
Petra 20
Porcelain Tower 24

- Oracle again, as i've said before I just don't think its very good, especailly compared to most of the remaining wonders.

+ Macu Picchu again, love this wonder!
 
Chichen Itza 27
Hanging Gardens 28
Leaning Tower of Pisa 28
Louvre 3 (-3)
Machu Picchu 23
Neuschwanstein Castle 11
Notre Dame 32
Oracle 17
Petra 21 (+1)
Porcelain Tower 24

Such hard choices. I like all of these wonders, but I'm going to have to neg Louvre because it makes getting new GEs and GSs much more difficult. +1 for Petra because I love super cities, and nothing creates super cities like Petra in the right spot. Also, a free amphitheater and +6 culture at archaeology is really quite nice.
 
Chichen Itza 27
Hanging Gardens 28
Leaning Tower of Pisa 28
Louvre 0
Machu Picchu 23
Neuschwanstein Castle 11
Notre Dame 32
Oracle 18
Petra 21
Porcelain Tower 24

Oracle : It deserves more love. Rationalism slingshot is huge for fast science games. Add a free gs point per turn and +3 cpt and you have a very decent wonder.

Louvre : Like other ''cultural'' wonders, too much situational. Also he's situated on a wrong tech path. Can also be good for last golden ages for dom. games or late science victories and it's probably why it went so far into this thread. But now he's dead :evil:
 
Chichen Itza 27
Hanging Gardens 28
Leaning Tower of Pisa 28
Machu Picchu 23
Neuschwanstein Castle 12
Notre Dame 32
Oracle 18
Petra 21
Porcelain Tower 21
 
> Never build it
> Downvote it

Build the damn thing when going wide and you'll love it.

Seems you didnt understood me or i didnt been so clear - i've built it many times, but i do not build it... (lately) because i dont see the sense

I play Immortal/Deity games, where you normally do not build castles in every city, except if you go honor, but if you go honor, you normally do not build (many/any) wonders either...(hint: you conquer them)

This wonder comes when happiness is not an issue (except super-wide warmonger games for which it designed) but alas its very situational to build in warmonger game, and its culture bonus laughable given it works at wide base (per city + hammer investment, totally useless for inner rim cities )

Also i do play information era , modern era MPs, where is huble is awesome
Also i play OCC games , in which i can easilly build it but i wont get much of use from it , actually

hubble good for any prolongated game, and huge advantage in late eras
Nauch is just situational wonder, i built when i played Emperor and lower levels,
Normally this wonder have better rivals to build at same era it comes

hope this is clear
 
Chichen Itza 27
Hanging Gardens 29
Leaning Tower of Pisa 28
Machu Picchu 23
Neuschwanstein Castle 12
Notre Dame 32
Oracle 18
Petra 21
Porcelain Tower 18

Since the RA nerf, the PT is a lot less useful. Still great, but not top-tier great.

HG basically allows you to work 3 free mines, giving the all-important early game production. Also unlike many wonders, the bonus stays relevant through the whole game.
 
Neusch has been sub-15 for like 5 days now and weathered some sub-10 days like a champ. It survived to the top 10. That's staying power, haha.
 
Seems you didnt understood me or i didnt been so clear - i've built it many times, but i do not build it... (lately) because i dont see the sense

I play Immortal/Deity games, where you normally do not build castles in every city, except if you go honor, but if you go honor, you normally do not build (many/any) wonders either...(hint: you conquer them)

This wonder comes when happiness is not an issue (except super-wide warmonger games for which it designed) but alas its very situational to build in warmonger game, and its culture bonus laughable given it works at wide base (per city + hammer investment, totally useless for inner rim cities )

Also i do play information era , modern era MPs, where is huble is awesome
Also i play OCC games , in which i can easilly build it but i wont get much of use from it , actually

hubble good for any prolongated game, and huge advantage in late eras
Nauch is just situational wonder, i built when i played Emperor and lower levels,
Normally this wonder have better rivals to build at same era it comes

hope this is clear

I just don't agree. Even with a single city, Neuschwanstein plus a regular Castle would give you 9 Gold, 6 Culture, and 3 Happiness. That's pretty damn good for a single wonder that can be "easily built", as you say, and you're likely to already have the Castle anyway since it's OCC.

Neuschwanstein is also great for a tall, 3-5 city empire. You'd get 21 Gold, 14 Culture, and 7 Happiness from 5 cities with Castles. And don't forget that these are base values, modified by other buildings (e.g. Markets) and policies (e.g. Commerce opener). Even if you don't need the Happiness (and you probably don't since Happiness is too abundant right now), the Gold alone is worth it.

In a wide empire with 10, 15, or even more cities, you might not have a Castle in every city, but you'll probably have one in at least a handful of cities, so you'll still get the bonus that a tall empire gets. As you progress and Castles become increasingly cheaper to build (relatively), there's nothing to stop you from building a few more to increase the bonus from Neuschwanstein. It's the wonder that just keeps on giving! Even puppet empires do well with Neuschwanstein because the AI tends to prioritize Castles for some reason.

On the other hand, Hubble Telescope is useful for one victory condition (Science), and either comes too late to matter or makes such a big difference that it's overpowering. Either way, it's no good. Science victories are already the easiest to get on higher difficulty levels and trivializing them with Hubble isn't all that impressive, to me.

And whether you like it or not, the vast majority of games are probably single player and starting in the Ancient Era. If you want to talk about which wonders are "situational", then you should probably consider typical games instead of your very niche non-Ancient MP games.
 
Chichen Itza 27
Hanging Gardens 29
Leaning Tower of Pisa 28
Machu Picchu 23
Neuschwanstein Castle 9
Notre Dame 32
Oracle 19
Petra 21
Porcelain Tower 18
 
Chichen Itza 27
Hanging Gardens 29
Leaning Tower of Pisa 29 +1
Machu Picchu 23
Neuschwanstein Castle 9
Notre Dame 32
Oracle 16 -3
Petra 21
Porcelain Tower 18

The Leaning Tower comes at a good time....and the Oracle, which I always try to build...and seldom miss getting ...has now become the weakest on the list...IMO

Neuschwanstein I hate to attack, because I still don't fully understand it...;) I seldom feel any great urgency to build it... Maybe I need to think about it a little more...
 
Chichen Itza 27
Hanging Gardens 29
Leaning Tower of Pisa 29
Machu Picchu 23
Neuschwanstein Castle 9
Notre Dame 29 (-3)
Oracle 16
Petra 22 (+1)
Porcelain Tower 18

I upvote Petra again and have said my reason why, but like a poster earlier said it good, its just fun to have super cities.

Downvote for Notre Dame, its nice ( like basically all the wonders left ) but after G&K i just dont have that much happines problems, and i dont usually proiritize it. Its nice to have, but if i dont get it, that doesent bother me either plus i dont think it deservs to be in lead.

Goota say that Neuschwanstein Castle dont give up easily.
 
And whether you like it or not, the vast majority of games are probably single player and starting in the Ancient Era. If you want to talk about which wonders are "situational", then you should probably consider typical games instead of your very niche non-Ancient MP games.

Well, every wonder is situational. That regards the difficulty, SP/MP, and what victory condition. None of them are 100 percenters, which will probably be reflected in the final voting rounds. Slyvnn plays excellently at deity on SP. (check out his Hiawatha thread regarding deity single player.) He is well-versed in 'typical' games. His post didnt sound particularly antagonistic to me but you seem to be a little on the defensive regarding Neusch.

from here on out my votes will pretty much be based on a comparison of what's left as these are all quite good and they will maybe even get repetitive.
 
Well, every wonder is situational. That regards the difficulty, SP/MP, and what victory condition. None of them are 100 percenters, which will probably be reflected in the final voting rounds. Slyvnn plays excellently at deity on SP. (check out his Hiawatha thread regarding deity single player.) He is well-versed in 'typical' games. His post didnt sound particularly antagonistic to me but you seem to be a little on the defensive regarding Neusch.

from here on out my votes will pretty much be based on a comparison of what's left as these are all quite good and they will maybe even get repetitive.

1. I never attacked his ability. I don't really care how well he does or doesn't play since that's irrelevant to our silly little game of voting on wonders.

2. I wasn't being defensive. I was disagreeing with his analysis and offering a positive look at Neuschwanstein. I happen to think that it's one of the better wonders in Civ V and in the real world, too!

3. He's the one that kept mentioning how useful Hubble was for non-Ancient starts and MP games. I was just pointing out that those games are far less typical than SP Ancient games.
 
phrases like "whether you like it or not" are easily construed as antagonistic. you assumed he's never considered 'typical' games and i was just pointing out that he is quite the well-rounded player. maybe you should consider his game types as well to see his perspective since you suggested he play other ways. after all, we are all just discussing preference in games anyway.

the subtleties of language make for assumptions to be quite easy, even my own and since Slyvnn isnt a native-English speaker he might have missed any of the tone that i saw.
 
Yes..good points ...I think most of us realize that probably most of the posters are coming at this from the point of view of their own playing style, which is fine...the insights I'm getting are great...

As for me, many of the newer wonders I still don't fully understand....

And, finally, while I think most of us tend to use either NA or British vernacular and idiomatic expressions, we do have to remember that some of the non-native speakers might not get all of those subtleties... But so what...all the commentary is useful, one way or another.. :)
 
How is Petra not part of a playstyle involving going tall when you're building other food generators? Especially given Mathematics, which you're taking for HG, leads to Currency? I mean, if you mean you don't actively seek out a desert area to settle, then sure, but if it was part of your tall empire already... ?

That's why i say its situational since i usually go OCC and if not i dont actively seek it most of the time it will be very far of from my Capital. Thats why it doesnt suit "My" Playstyle.
 
Chichen Itza 27
Hanging Gardens 29
Leaning Tower of Pisa 29
Machu Picchu 24
Neuschwanstein Castle 9
Notre Dame 26
Oracle 16
Petra 22
Porcelain Tower 18

I've stated my leanings toward Machu a few times, but a wonder that scales that well is just amazing.

As for ND, happiness isn't the issue it once was, and the times it is seem to be the times the AI nabs this first.
 
Vote withdrawn due to the complaints.
 
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