Wonder Elimination Thread

[GoStu]

Chichen Itza - 10
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 34
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 37
Machu Picchu - 20
Neuschwanstein - 23
Notre Dame - 20
Oracle - 23
Petra - 7
Sistine Chapel - 33
Statue of Liberty - 33
Stonehenge - 2

Downvote to Stonehenge. It's not a bad Wonder by any stretch of the imagination, and it does mean you're getting a religion, but that's no guarantee of a good religion. +5 Faith Per Turn is decent but it's kind of meaningless if you've got, say, the Celts, Ethiopia, and Arabia with Desert Folklore out there.

Upvote to Leaning Tower. It's really hard to argue against any Great Person, let alone one of your choosing plus a bonus to producing any others you wish.

 

[Ninakoru]

Chichen Itza - 7 - Not bad, but is the worst of the remaining IMO.
Colossus - 22 - 5 gold plus free route plus free cargo ship on classical era? just too good to keep a healthy economy.
Eiffel Tower - 34
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 37
Machu Picchu - 20
Neuschwanstein - 23
Notre Dame - 20
Oracle - 23
Petra - 7
Sistine Chapel - 33
Statue of Liberty - 33
Stonehenge - 2

 

[Memoryjar]

Chichen Itza - 10
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 34
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 37
Machu Picchu - 20
Neuschwanstein - 23
Notre Dame - 20
Oracle - 23
Petra - 7
Sistine Chapel - 33
Statue of Liberty - 33 - 3 = 30 : Needs Liberty. I tend to think, if you open Liberty, you don't need extra-hammer from Statue. In my actuel games, I'll go for SV faster with Liberty rather than Order, but when I read post here or watch videos, I realize I miss play Order. With Liberty, I'm going to DV or CV and I don't need hammers when I cross Modern Era.
Stonehenge - 2 + 1 = 3 : Many players don't go to higher difficults level. Below Immortal, it's a fair deal. Religion without building shrine or faith pantheon. Great Engineer point.

 

[Doctor Doom]

Chichen Itza - 10
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 34
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 37
Machu Picchu - 20
Neuschwanstein - 23
Notre Dame - 20
Oracle - 23
Petra - 8 Defend to the end!
Sistine Chapel - 33
Statue of Liberty - = 30
Stonehenge 0 I honestly think that Stonehenge isn't worth the early hammers. You could easily get out 2 settlers instead

 

[Biologist]

Now that the leaderscreen thread is wrapped up, I might as well help finish this one off.

Chichen Itza - 10
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 34
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 38 What's not to like? Faster great person generation is always good, and if you pick an Engineer as a reward, you can get a two-for-one deal. Two wonders for the price of one? Yes please.
Machu Picchu - 20
Neuschwanstein - 23
Notre Dame - 20
Oracle - 23
Petra - 8
Sistine Chapel - 30 Great for cultural victories... not so helpful elsewhere. I generally find better places to spend my hammers at this point in the game.
Statue of Liberty - 30

 

[GoStu]

Sistine Chapel - 30 Great for cultural victories... not so helpful elsewhere. I generally find better places to spend my hammers at this point in the game.

I'd have to disagree with you on your reasoning. The two slots for works of art are quite handy for Culture victory, sure, but the 25% increase in culture generated is awesome for any victory condition. Once you have Acoustics for this Wonder you're just into the Renaissance: one could argue that this helps you unlock Rationalism 25% faster, or move quicker into your ideology.

I can't fault you if you have a preferred place to put your production at that time, and of course it's your vote and reasoned out, but I want to debate the point that Culture generation is only for Cultural victory.

 

[Biologist]

I'd have to disagree with you on your reasoning. The two slots for works of art are quite handy for Culture victory, sure, but the 25% increase in culture generated is awesome for any victory condition. Once you have Acoustics for this Wonder you're just into the Renaissance: one could argue that this helps you unlock Rationalism 25% faster, or move quicker into your ideology.

I can't fault you if you have a preferred place to put your production at that time, and of course it's your vote and reasoned out, but I want to debate the point that Culture generation is only for Cultural victory.

I see your point that the extra culture and policies are helpful for other victory types besides Cultural. Still, I seem to find myself focusing on other priorities when I enter the Renaissance. Maybe I've ended up next to Napoleon's musketeer spam one too many times, or maybe I'm biased from having recently finished a game as Korea (tall empire and the specialist slots on my various guilds were filled, so I had extra culture to work with).

 

[GhostSalsa]

Needs Liberty. I tend to think, if you open Liberty, you don't need extra-hammer from Statue.

This is a good point actually. The times Statue of Liberty has benefited me the most has been when I stole it - I take Freedom when I'm tall and already pretty much wrapping up my build needs.

Chichen Itza - 10
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 34
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 38
Machu Picchu - 20
Neuschwanstein - 23
Notre Dame - 17
Oracle - 23
Petra - 9
Sistine Chapel - 30
Statue of Liberty - 30

Petra: stop it. stop voting this down. it's better than Colossus. Colossus's "free" cargo ship requires a couple triremes to protect it and a second city with a granary to fully leverage it, there's a lot of fine print to squeeze into your early game. the slot is great but Petra is safer and better for a bonus slot.

Notre Dame: sorry to repeat my last vote but really. I'd rather steal this one with crossbows than tech to physics on time.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Chichen Itza - 10
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 31
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 38
Machu Picchu - 20
Neuschwanstein - 23
Notre Dame - 17
Oracle - 23
Petra - 10
Sistine Chapel - 30
Statue of Liberty - 30

+1 to Petra. This wonder bought in the right place will give you a lot of food and production. If you have many desert hills, they all turn into super tiles after building anything on them. It also gives a free trade route, which can be used to send food, production or gold. It's insane. How much production can it give, you ask? A lot. How much food? A lot! With the right start, it's going to give you much more production than SoL while also granting you food and a trade route which can be used to do anything (if you want, you can sack the Caravan and get another Cargo Ship to get double the benefits). And a Great Engineer point. And +5 culture much later on. It also gives all that several eras earlier than SoL, which means the profit will be much bigger, because you've been using it for so long.

This wonder should at least be in the top 5, and I will protect it.

-3 to the Eiffel Tower. It's a great wonder, but I can't understand why it has so many points. It is the best cultural wonder which is worth going for even if you don't plan on going cultural because it gives many things. This wonder is nothing gamebreaking though, and it comes kind of late. It should be at 15-10 now at best, not 30, so -3.

 

[jlim201]

Chichen Itza - 10
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 31
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 35- Yes, it is great, but is it that much better than everything else?
Machu Picchu - 20
Neuschwanstein - 23
Notre Dame - 17
Oracle - 23
Petra - 10
Sistine Chapel - 30
Statue of Liberty - 31- Almost a must build unless I dont take freedom. Even in tall empires, with just scientists and GWAM, you can get 18 production without bonuses. That is a lot of production when put into use. Smaller cities at this point in the game would likely have bad tiles to work so a majority of them become specilaists in the bought buildings.

 

[Guandao]

Chichen Itza - 10+1=11 I'll give another point to this wonder, I see no reasons to give points to the rest (they are either high enough in points or have specific city requirements)
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 31
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 35
Machu Picchu - 20
Neuschwanstein - 23-3=20 I think being equal to Machu Picchu would be good , plus both have mountain city requirements (no building this on island dominated maps unless there's mountainous islands)
Notre Dame - 17
Oracle - 23
Petra - 10
Sistine Chapel - 30
Statue of Liberty - 31

 

[SemperFi2382]

Chichen Itza - 11
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 31
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 32
Machu Picchu - 20
Neuschwanstein - 21
Notre Dame - 17
Oracle - 23
Petra - 10
Sistine Chapel - 30
Statue of Liberty - 31

Voted down the Leaning Tower just to make it lean a little bit more.
Voted up Neuschwanstein because those bonuses.

 

[jlim201]

Chichen Itza - 11
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 31
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 32
Machu Picchu - 20
Neuschwanstein - 21
Notre Dame - 18- 10 happiness, Yay!
Oracle - 23
Petra - 7- Its the least likely wonder left to be built. You want to be near mountains, observatories, you want to be on the coast for ships but you dont want to be on the desert without flood plains.
Sistine Chapel - 30
Statue of Liberty - 31

 

[GoStu]

Chichen Itza - 11
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 31
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 32
Machu Picchu - 20
Neuschwanstein - 21 + 1 = 22
Notre Dame - 18 -3 = 15
Oracle - 23
Petra - 7
Sistine Chapel - 30
Statue of Liberty - 31

Upvoting Neuschwanstein again for the potential huge amounts of happiness, gold, and culture it gives. Even for a paltry 4-city empire it's still 4 happiness, 8 culture, and 12 gold per turn. If you actually expand your empire a bit the numbers get staggering.

Downvote to Notre Dame. 10 Happiness and 4 Faith are nothing to sneer at, but this can be gotten other ways. Also, in my books this Wonder is better to steal than to build as it makes no difference exactly where it is in your empire.

 

[CHEESE!]

Chichen Itza - 11
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 31
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 32
Machu Picchu - 20
Neuschwanstein - 22 + 1 = 23
Notre Dame - 15 - 3 = 12
Oracle - 23
Petra - 7
Sistine Chapel - 30
Statue of Liberty - 31

Down with Notre Dame, up with Neuschwanstein, for the exact same reasons as above. Notre Dame is nice to have, and if it's free, sure, I'll take it, but NSS does everything it does and more, and AI's aren't obsessed with it to boot.

 

[PhilBowles]

Chichen Itza - 10
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 34
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 37
Machu Picchu - 20
Neuschwanstein - 23
Notre Dame - 20
Oracle - 23
Petra - 8 Defend to the end!
Sistine Chapel - 33
Statue of Liberty - = 30
Stonehenge 0 I honestly think that Stonehenge isn't worth the early hammers. You could easily get out 2 settlers instead

This thread again? Mind you, I think the last one was pre-BNW.

Haven't followed it so far - why's Petra now so low? It's arguably quite not as good as it used to be, but it does now give its gold without you having to work it, so its boost kicks in earlier.

Chichen Itza should be on 7 at this point - it was downvoted in the previous post.

Where have the Hanging Gardens gone? It's still the game's best Wonder (BNW didn't really add any especially good Wonders, although it drastically improved a few existing one, Colossus and Eiffel among them).

As for Stonehenge, the GE point is its biggest sell, but if anything it can get you your first GE too early to be especially useful if you're also going for other GE Wonders, such as Petra. There are much more reliable ways to get early faith now, and some of the newer pantheon beliefs really reduce Stonehenge's value - Tears of the Gods can give ridiculous amounts, since pearls and gems often cluster, and are good tiles to work early (unlike many desert tiles with Desert Folklore).

 

[PhilBowles]

Chichen Itza - 11
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 31
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 32
Machu Picchu - 20
Neuschwanstein - 22 + 1 = 23
Notre Dame - 15 - 3 = 12
Oracle - 23
Petra - 7
Sistine Chapel - 30
Statue of Liberty - 31

Down with Notre Dame, up with Neuschwanstein, for the exact same reasons as above. Notre Dame is nice to have, and if it's free, sure, I'll take it, but NSS does everything it does and more, and AI's aren't obsessed with it to boot.

Okay, I'll join the voting. Correcting CI (which should now be 8, as a downvote from 10 was missed and it's since been voted for once):

Chichen Itza - 8
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 31
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 32
Machu Picchu - 17
Neuschwanstein - 23
Notre Dame - 12
Oracle - 23
Petra - 8
Sistine Chapel - 30
Statue of Liberty - 31

Choosing two I've visited, coincidentally enough...

Machu Picchu: Since BNW, I just don't find myself building it often. I'm not very sure why not, since city connections via harbours are usually my main source of income, however for this reason it does suit a rather specific start with access to both multiple landmasses (or at least a long coastline), and somewhere with a mountain to build the Wonder. I get more income from trade than from roads. While I still tend to play fairly wide, it seems the "metagame" (insofar as Civ V has one) focuses on building tall more than in the prior versions of Civ V, reducing MP's utility further. It's not the worst of the remaining Wonders, but it's ranked a bit too high at the moment.

Petra: Reasons much as I gave above. As someone pointed out, it's not a free caravan, it's a free trade route - a very much more valuable commodity. The caravan's just a perk. Desert is still a useful area to find resources, even though thinking in isolation it's of less utility than some other areas (and nothing stops you finding mountains in desert), so I don't think it's correct to argue that "it's less likely to be built"; Civ maps and starting locations vary too much to make this kind of assessment. It's more likely than the Colossus to be built on a Pangea, for a start, while I often struggle to find suitable mountains.

 

[Liufeng]

Chichen Itza - 9 - Longer golden age and happiness, it sure makes a man happy !
Colossus - 18 - It's very good, but among the remaining wonders, it's the one I choose the least
Eiffel Tower - 31
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 32
Machu Picchu - 17
Neuschwanstein - 23
Notre Dame - 12
Oracle - 23
Petra - 8
Sistine Chapel - 30
Statue of Liberty - 31

 

[SemperFi2382]

Chichen Itza - 9
Colossus - 15
Eiffel Tower - 31
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 32
Machu Picchu - 17
Neuschwanstein - 24
Notre Dame - 12
Oracle - 23
Petra - 8
Sistine Chapel - 30
Statue of Liberty - 31

Up vote for Neuschwanstein due to bonuses.
Down vote for Colossus because compared to the remaining wonders, it's just not as good.

 

[redwings1340]

Chichen Itza - 9
Colossus - 16
Eiffel Tower - 31
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 32
Machu Picchu - 17
Neuschwanstein - 24
Notre Dame - 12
Oracle - 23
Petra - 8
Sistine Chapel - 27
Statue of Liberty - 31

The colossus is on an awkward spot on the tech tree, but having an additional trade route/cargo ship is really awesome. This is a must have for some civs.

Maybe it's because I don't usually play tourism style, but in BNW most of my culture is usually from city states until the late game. If I'm in the tech lead, I'll definitely get this, but I can also live without this wonder.