Wonder Elimination Thread

Chichen Itza - -2Death to Itza! Finally got it in a game. It meant very little.
Eiffel Tower - 32 - 3 = 29 this is just an overrated wonder really.
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 32
Machu Picchu - 8
Neuschwanstein - 30
Oracle - 12 + 1 = 13 this is a FREE policy (unlike what someone here said) and also gives +3 culture and a GS point. that extra free policy is great towards whatever victory condition you are planning.
Petra - 6Save the Petra! No wonder so completely creates a super city. The free trade route is so timely. This is the only wonder I will RAGE QUIT for.
Sistine Chapel - 29
Statue of Liberty - 26
 
Eiffel Tower - 29
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 32
Machu Picchu - 5
Neuschwanstein - 30
Oracle - 13
Petra - 6
Sistine Chapel - 29
Statue of Liberty - 26

I think we're getting close to what should be the final order, but Petra and The Oracle are glaringly low (and I'd say SoL and Neuschwanstein are a little overrated). On the principle of downvoting the weakest remaining Wonder, however, Machu Picchu needs to go next. It's both strategy- and map-specific; fantastic if you have a map with a lot of overseas connections, even when fairly tall, but not worth the investment for tall land empires (which are the commonest type). And while Guilds was a great (if somewhat inexplicable) place for it in previous versions of Civ V - when you needed to rush markets and trading posts - with most trade-related techs being along other parts of the tech tree it's no longer terribly well-placed (I find I rarely build trading posts now).

Petra: it simply doesn't deserve to go next. Here's a promised screenshot from my last England game:

Spoiler :


Take a look at York. As it happens, I did successfully build Petra in this city, but would you say that I would have been fatally weakened if I hadn't? No, it's a good production city spot - Petra's just a bonus I can go for because the hills happen to be desert. This gives the lie to claims that Petra can cost games by forcing suboptimal placement; players placing cities in suboptimal places can cost games, but Petra doesn't force you to do any such thing (although it's admittedly tempting to see a desert with some resources and race to grab it; that that's bad play is not the Wonder's fault).
 
Isn't this somewhat ironic with an aqueduct for an avatar?

Not really. I still build aqueducts in a few key cities, and often fill out Tradition when I'm starting. Having that strong core of your initial 3-4 cities is still important to a Wide empire. The value of your city connections is partially determined by your capital. I still grow the remaining cities as large as I can reasonably get away with.

There's a big gap between Wide and ICS play.
 
Eiffel Tower - 29
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 32
Machu Picchu - 5
Neuschwanstein - 30-3=27 Because I'm not attacked that often, I don't usually build walls, let alone castles, so this, IMH, is kinda overrated.
Oracle - 13
Petra - 6+1=7 SAVE PETRA!!!!
Sistine Chapel - 29
Statue of Liberty - 26
 
Eiffel Tower - 29+1= 30 It really helps me as I am often looking to boost my happiness at that point.
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 32
Machu Picchu - 5-3 = 2 Too many variables to make it worth my effort in many of my games, so I do not often get it...all the more fun to capture it though....
Neuschwanstein - 27
Oracle - 13
Petra - 7
Sistine Chapel - 29
Statue of Liberty - 26
 
Eiffel Tower -30
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 32
Machu Picchu - 2
Neuschwanstein - 27
Oracle - 13
Petra - 4- Yes, it is a good wonder when you need it, but how often will you find a resourceful area with a lot of desert hills?
Sistine Chapel - 29
Statue of Liberty - 27- One of the few wonders that give production, and the amount seems small, but can be very valuable when building that last military unit needed, that final part faster or that late game wonder.
 
Eiffel Tower -30
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 32
Machu Picchu - 2
Neuschwanstein - 27
Oracle - 13
Petra - 6 my motto is 3+ hills makes it worth the production.
Sistine Chapel - 29
Statue of Liberty - 24 not worth going freedom for a little bit of production that late in the game.
 
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 32
Machu Picchu - 2
Neuschwanstein - 24
Oracle - 13
Petra - 7
Sistine Chapel - 29
Statue of Liberty - 24

Petra is a game changer, having a extra city that can has access to food on every tile makes it very productive in all assets of the game add ToA into the mix and it can be on par or exceed the Capital.

Neuschwanstein the bonuses comes far to late to make a difference in the game add to the fact it comes on a bad tech. IMO many better wonders have been eliminated that give you bonuses when you need them instead of the insane amounts of gold, culture and happiness Neuschwanstein at a time where you don't need it.
 
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 32
Machu Picchu - 0 Between oracle and Machu, they are worst ones left.
Neuschwanstein - 24
Oracle - 13
Petra - 8 Hang in there, Petra!
Sistine Chapel - 29
Statue of Liberty - 24
 
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 32
Neuschwanstein - 25
Oracle - 10
Petra - 7 Dr Doom gave Petra +2 . I am correcting this.
Sistine Chapel - 29
Statue of Liberty - 24

Upvote to my favorite mountain castle, for the potentially monstrous bonuses.

Downvote to Oracle: it's the worst of what's left.
 
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 32
Neuschwanstein - 25
Oracle - 7
Petra - 8
Sistine Chapel - 29
Statue of Liberty - 24

Oracle is the worst of what's left. Giving Petra some love just in case anyone gets the idea to eliminate it before Oracle.
 
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 29
Neuschwanstein - 26
Oracle - 7
Petra - 8
Sistine Chapel - 29
Statue of Liberty - 24

Down vote to keep the Leaning Tower from being too far ahead.
Up vote for Neuschwanstein because those bonuses are worth being in the top 3.
 
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 29
Neuschwanstein - 26 - 3 = 23
Oracle - 7
Petra - 8 + 1 = 9
Sistine Chapel - 29
Statue of Liberty - 24


I have never built Neuschwanstein because it comes so late in the game that I'm normally focusing on either teching my way to a Science/Diplo/Culture victory, or pumping out those last units to get a Dom victory. The bonuses do look good, but they come so late that I don't really see how it would make much of a difference other than just solidify your empire a bit more. Plus, I very rarely build castles in my cities, they take up valuable hammers that could be used on extra culture buildings or gold buildings.

I built another Petra in my most recent game as Portugal, in my 2nd city and that city ended up having more production than my capital for most of the game, at about half the population. Petra is just OP if you can get the right spot for it.
 
Eiffel Tower : 30
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 29
Neuschwanstein - 26 - 3 = 23
Oracle - 7 +1 = 8. Again and again, after or before NC, I build Oracle.
Petra - 9
Sistine Chapel - 29
Statue of Liberty - 24 - 3 = 21. Order is better, Freedom only for tenets 3 and Statue.So I didn't build it for a long time.

I retrieved Eiffel tower.
 
Eiffel Tower : 30
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 29
Neuschwanstein - 23
Oracle - 5
Petra - 9
Sistine Chapel - 29
Statue of Liberty - 22

I would think most people would build their guilds in one city. If you do that and build the SoL, that city gets as much production as you'd get out of the Petra plus all your other cities get some and the free social policy.

The Oracle - an early wonder made it this far but I think it's time to go is now. I usually fill out Tradition or Liberty and then have 2 or 3 filler social polices before I unlock Rationalism. This free social policy just gives you another filler which isn't all that valuable.
 
Neuschwanstein the bonuses comes far to late to make a difference in the game add to the fact it comes on a bad tech. IMO many better wonders have been eliminated that give you bonuses when you need them instead of the insane amounts of gold, culture and happiness Neuschwanstein at a time where you don't need it.

I have never built Neuschwanstein because it comes so late in the game that I'm normally focusing on either teching my way to a Science/Diplo/Culture victory, or pumping out those last units to get a Dom victory. The bonuses do look good, but they come so late that I don't really see how it would make much of a difference other than just solidify your empire a bit more. Plus, I very rarely build castles in my cities, they take up valuable hammers that could be used on extra culture buildings or gold buildings.
.

I don't really understand your viewpoints. How is Railroad "too late to make a difference"? It's not that late a tech, nor is it a bad tech. The production bonus for railroad connections is +25%, and I often have Workers loafing about building redundant Farms or Trading Posts. They can rip around retrofitting all my roads to rail and giving me a big production boost.

The Castles don't have to be pre-existing: knock Walls and a Castle out in a couple turns per city for a sick Happiness, Culture, and Gold boost. I almost never have castles either, but after I get Neuschwanstein it's like freaking Disneyland in my empire: castles EVERYWHERE for the fun of it.
 
Eiffel Tower : 30
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 30
Neuschwanstein - 23
Oracle - 2
Petra - 10
Sistine Chapel - 29
Statue of Liberty - 19

Leaning Tower for a change from Petra, and because at this point there's no way to save the Oracle, and just because it's better than Eiffel Tower. Eiffel's tourism boost is nice but only essential for a cultural victory.

When this topic came up pre-BNW, general feeling was the hammer bonus from the Statue would rarely pay for the Wonder's cost - I don't think it's any cheaper now so the maths still stand. Yes, you'll usually have two or all three guilds in one city ... but it won't be your production city in most cases, so it's not clear that this gives the Wonder an advantage compared with the older system (as you can have far fewer artist-type specialists in total than in the past). At this point in the game, an extra social policy is nice but certainly not as nice as it is with the unfairly-maligned Oracle.

I would think most people would build their guilds in one city. If you do that and build the SoL, that city gets as much production as you'd get out of the Petra plus all your other cities get some and the free social policy.

Except this is the amount Petra is producing per turn since much earlier in the game, and doing so in a production-focused city; the guilds have to be built in a food-focused city. Also, the value of a production Wonder is obviously tied to the amount of hammers the Wonder itself takes to produce, and the Statue is far more hammer-intensive to build.
 
I don't really understand your viewpoints. How is Railroad "too late to make a difference"? It's not that late a tech, nor is it a bad tech. The production bonus for railroad connections is +25%, and I often have Workers loafing about building redundant Farms or Trading Posts. They can rip around retrofitting all my roads to rail and giving me a big production boost.

For a science victory, railroad isn't needed until you're rushing those last few techs to get the spaceship going. It's one of the techs I normally knock out with my 'Great Scientist rush' to head up to Satellites and build the Hubble Space Telescope, which is normally the very last thing I build before spaceship parts, leaving no room for Neuschwanstein.

For a culture victory, it's pretty much the same thing, because I'd be heading towards internet tech, so the complete bottom half of the tech tree gets neglected, I normally don't have anything past Dynamite down there, and I only have that for artillery or else I'd stop at Fertiliser. Neuschwanstein would be useful for the culture I suppose, but it would slow down my win by at least 10 turns to get Railroad when instead I'd rather just get to Internet.

For diplomatic victory, Neuschwanstein could be built if city states wanted it, but other than that I just wouldn't bother building it because of all the bonuses I would be getting from city states at that point in the game. Everything that Neuschwanstein offers, city states offer more of it - It would become redundant and a waste of turns that I could instead spend even just on straight up money to keep those city states as my allies.

For domination victory, I can see Neuschwanstein being very useful to keep that happiness up, but at that point in the game, I'd have maybe one or two civs left to knock out, so why bother when I can just build a couple more units and steam roll my way to victory?

As for time victory, has anyone ever played to this point...

The Castles don't have to be pre-existing: knock Walls and a Castle out in a couple turns per city for a sick Happiness, Culture, and Gold boost. I almost never have castles either, but after I get Neuschwanstein it's like freaking Disneyland in my empire: castles EVERYWHERE for the fun of it.

I could do, but that would waste even more hammers. Honestly, I like to win as quickly as I possibly can, that's how I play, that's what I find fun, and as much as I love the idea of Neuschwanstein, the bonuses are really huge compared to most other wonders, especially at that point in the game, it's just in the wrong tech to be of any use for quick victory strategies and so I find it difficult to justify spending the extra hammers and turns on it for what would be a very shortlived wonder. Let's put it this way - by the time I research railroad, I'm normally around 25 - 30 turns away from winning. Add to this the time it takes to build the wonder, that leaves me with a maximum of maybe 15 - 18 turns with Neuschwanstein. Not worth it for me.

I hope that explains it well enough so it doesn't seem like I was just hating on it for no reason :) I can see why some people would like it, but it's just not for me.
 
Eiffel Tower : 30
Leaning Tower of Pisa - 30
Neuschwanstein - 23
Oracle - -1
Petra - 11
Sistine Chapel - 29
Statue of Liberty - 19

TBH, I'm surprised Oracle survived this far. So I'm just bumping it off, putting it out of its misery. It's not a poor wonder but it's certainly not the best.
Upvoting Petra. Yes, it has some specific restrictions. But the tiles it affects become beastly and that extra traderoute is amazing gravy. Shame Venice rarely gets desert-based starts.
 
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