Wonders: Build vs. Capture

[6K Man]

Received wisdom around here is that, rather than build a wonder yourself, you might as well build 10 Axemen and go get the Pyramids from stupid 'ol Ramesses, Louis, or Huayna who obligingly built them for you. Which is all good and fine. But some Wonders are less suited to this strategy, and in a fit of work-induced boredom, I thought I'd supply my list.



(Disclaimer: All captured wonders will still provide the GPP they would normally yield, but provide no culture. So even a "not capturable" wonder will give you some GPP, at least.)


Not capturable:

Oracle

Taj Mahal


Semi-capturable:

Great Library: Still works, but you may have built your GP farm (with National Epic) somewhere else

Temple of Artemis: Still works, but may not be in your best trading city (and often better as a trade destination for Great Merchants)

Hanging Gardens: +1 still applies, but +1 pop/city doesn't.

Versailles: Not always in the optimum location, but you can always move your Palace

Notre Dame: May be on wrong continent.

Great Wall: May be on wrong continent – but less of an issue than with ND, as continent only matters for purposes of warding barbarians, not other functions

Statue of Liberty: May be on wrong continent.

Three Gorgeous Dames: May be on wrong continent.

Apostolic Palace: May be wrong religion; may not have enough votes to be Resident (despite owning it).

 

[lymond]

Spiral Minaret applies to whatever religion you are currently running, so it can be captured for effect. Of course, if you are not running a religion is darn near worthless, but at least the AI doesn't have the bonuses.

 

[Kadazzle]

Capturing wonders is good in some cases, but on Immortal/Deity, if you want a wonder, you better gun for it (not so much on Immortal).

 

[coanda]

If you're including "wrong continent", might as well add Statue of Liberty.
Then there's Hanging Gardens, which will still give you the +1 health but you lose out on the +1 pop to every city boost on completion. As you mentioned, AP doesn't switch religion when you capture it. Both UN and AP may take some time to pay off capturing, in that there may be an already-elected leader and you have to wait for the next election to throw your name into the hat.

 

[6K Man]

edited. Good catches, coanda.

 

[z0wb13]

not capture-able: manhattan project

semi-capture-able: shwedagon paya (and pyramids to a lesser degree) might be captured after all the civics are unlocked by research, anyway.

 

[DaveMcW]

build 10 Axemen and go get the Pyramids from stupid 'ol Ramesses, Louis, or Huayna who obligingly built them for you.

Build 10 axemen and go get a second capital from your neighbor. You don't need wonders to win.

 

[mirthadir]

I'd also include the AP in the list. Yes, all the functions of the AP are the same if an AI builds, however it often is not in the "right" religion. If the AI builds the AP in its own private religion, it takes far longer to get all the buildings up. Worse, if you want to use the AP for manipulation you won't be able to game it as heavily.


When you control the AP you can do crazy things like sacrifice two turns to build it in a completely controlled minority religion (e.g. Christianity) or build it in a religion that allows you to declare jihad on an annoying AI (e.g. Shaka). Because the religion of the AP itself is locked when built, it is a vastly different thing if you build it with your goals in mind or the AI does with whatever religion it happens to be running.

 

[Bibor]

Build 10 axemen and go get a second capital from your neighbor. You don't need wonders to win.

True. An enemy capital is a wonder in itself (usually).

 

[6K Man]

not capture-able: manhattan project

The "not capturable" wonders are those whose benefit won't accrue to you if you capture them (e.g. you don't get a free tech by capturing Oracle).

MP grants the bonus to everyone - so the benefit accrues to you when anyone builds it. So there's no point in capturing it, but that doesn't make it "not capturable". Bit of nuance there.

 

[6K Man]

Build 10 axemen and go get a second capital from your neighbor. You don't need wonders to win.

True enough. But for those who like shiny wonders, the point of the list was to show which ones you MUST build yourself (e.g. Oracle) if you want the benefit, as opposed to ones like Great Lighthouse which are equally useful if you capture them or build them (delays aside).

 

[6K Man]

I'd also include the AP in the list. Yes, all the functions of the AP are the same if an AI builds, however it often is not in the "right" religion. If the AI builds the AP in its own private religion, it takes far longer to get all the buildings up. Worse, if you want to use the AP for manipulation you won't be able to game it as heavily.


When you control the AP you can do crazy things like sacrifice two turns to build it in a completely controlled minority religion (e.g. Christianity) or build it in a religion that allows you to declare jihad on an annoying AI (e.g. Shaka). Because the religion of the AP itself is locked when built, it is a vastly different thing if you build it with your goals in mind or the AI does with whatever religion it happens to be running.

Good points. Added AP to list.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Statue of Zeus and Chichen Itza make people who own them a pain in the ass

Not really a reason to build them, though..

 

[Framesticker]

If I have spare time, I'll build the SoZ or Chicen Itza for failure gold. If I can complete them though and I'm looking at a few potential targets, denying it from the AI can be war-changing.

 

[obsolete]

not capture-able: manhattan project

That does not make any sense. Who ever builds this gives you basically a free Manhatton project without war, so why would you want to capture something you already own?

Furthermore, it's not even a wonder so why is this mentioned?

 

[z0wb13]

That does not make any sense. Who ever builds this gives you basically a free Manhatton project without war, so why would you want to capture something you already own?

Furthermore, it's not even a wonder so why is this mentioned?

as when you capture the taj mahal or oracle, their is no particular benefit besides the points if you take the manhattan project from a rival (does MP even produce any?). admittedly, it is a bit of a moot point. mirthadir's suggestion about the AP is more relevant, but i want to push my thread count;p

 

[coanda]

I'm pretty sure Manhattan Project does not give GP points. So the only reason I could think of for wanting to capture it is if it boosts your score. I'm not sure about that.

 

[obsolete]

Mmm, you two are missing some basics about the game. Projects are NOT wonders!

There is nothing to capture.

 

[Bibor]

Also semi-capturable:
- Spiral Minaret
- University of Sankore
Because they require a state religion AND planning ahead (temples + monasteries, possibly cathedrals in your state religion) for them to work properly.

 

[plasmacannon]

Also semi-capturable:
- Spiral Minaret
- University of Sankore
Because they require a state religion AND planning ahead (temples + monasteries, possibly cathedrals in your state religion) for them to work properly.

Both are good to have, when, you have the tech lead.
For someone like Mansa, who, is SPI/FIN and can defend his cities well early on.
Builds his temples for half cost, then techs to get those.
Or for those who are Spiritual and capture these.
Montezuma, Brennus and Justinian come to mind.