Wonders Strategy Article: Stonehenge

[madscientist]

With the ongoing wonders discussion thread, perhaps a strategy article focusing on the benifits on every wonder would be useful.

I will start one in the strategy forum, and post one wonder at a time. Meanwhile I suggest posting individual threads on a wonder (which can be linked in teh strategy article) for discussion of it's uses. The main strategy article would be a clear and detailed review of the wonder, without alot of the pro/com discussion (which would be in the thread.

So here tlak about the merits, uses of Stonehenge. Why to build it, why not, etc.....

To start it off

STONEHENGE:
provides a free monument (or equivalent UB) to every city.
Obsoletes at astronomy
+2 Great Prophet points

1) A free monuments means +1 culture, great for border pops unless you are cultural.

2) A free happy face to charismatic leaders.

3) Free UB for Egypt, Ethiopia, NAtive America

4) AS it is early you usually get a Prophet as your first GP, for good or ill. Helps get a shrine but contaminates the GS pool.

5) Stronge wonder for a culture win as the base culture doubles in 1000 years.

 

[petey]

I like Stonehenge. It's a relatively cheap wonder that you can get with one or two chops and beat the AI to most of the time at any level. You can have your cities expand without having to waste hammers on culture buildings and instead focus on something else. If someone near you founds a religion, you can rush them and have a Prophet for their (now your) Shrine shortly afterwards.

It's not a game-breaking Wonder by any means and if you get a sack of gold from the AI completing it first, that's almost as good as completing it yourself, but it's a fairly good target to aim for most always in the early game.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

It sucked a bit in Vanilla/Warlords when monuments obsoleted at calendar.

Note when it obsoletes the bonus monuments disappear as if they never existed, unlike ones you actually built which remain giving culture (they just can't be built anymore) and double to +2 after 1000 years. Any UB effects (Native America xp for archery unit, Egyptian priest specialist slots, Ethiopian culture bonus) do disappear though.

I really only build this wonder if:

1) I am charismatic, or
2) I'm not creative (if going for a culture win with Zara, I just build 3 steles in my big 3 cities), or
3) Going for a pre-astro domination victory to get border pops to push land over the dom limit (although caste artists are better for that really).

It's doubled by stone but it is rare to be able to hook the stone up in time to make a difference to building it. It's normally the first wonder to be built.

 

[The Rook]

Another negative about SH is that although it can assist a rex with free border pops, it may ironically stall expansion in the sense that you could have a settler and an archer for virtually the same number of hammers. The cost looks more attractive for an Industrious leader, and the 50% gold bonus would at least give a reasonable consolation prize if you miss it.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I find it is a good first build at slower speeds for civs that start with mysticism and no useful worker techs (I'm looking at you, Arabia, Celtia and Byzantine ).

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

It's doubled by stone but it is rare to be able to hook the stone up in time to make a difference to building it. It's normally the first wonder to be built.

I'd add two points, somewhat related.

1) If you are racing the AI to good city locations, you are basically conceding a site to the AI by building the Henge. (ah - I got beaten to this one)

2) Constructing the Henge outside the capital can be a very strong play, as the marginal value of the extra culture is much higher at city location #2.

and one unreleated: for civs that start with Mysticism, it's a decent hammer sink when you choose to grow while researching worker techs.

 

[Bigv32]

I would have to say that while it may not be smart or even recommended, if you are creative and you build it it is like a free 50% increase to you starting culture.

While I have only done this once, I can say that it is really nice on marathon because you get your borders popped quicker. Again not neccessary but it was nice to have because I needed two prophits for shrines.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

@ VoU: Yeah if you are gonna build it it is much better to build it in your 2nd city if you have time to do so (unlikely at higher levels).

I beat you to your 3rd point as well

 

[Ghpstage]

Something noone has mentioned - It centres world map, knowing where you are is suprisingly helpful

and a couple of general things,
-It pays for itself with 4 cities, as such its better value on larger maps where you will have more cities.
-It can often be chopped fast in your second city.
-Ind leaders have a bigger advantage than usual at getting it as (already ben said) stone rarely comes into play

 

[madscientist]

I'd add two points, somewhat related.

1) If you are racing the AI to good city locations, you are basically conceding a site to the AI by building the Henge. (ah - I got beaten to this one)

2) Constructing the Henge outside the capital can be a very strong play, as the marginal value of the extra culture is much higher at city location #2.

and one unreleated: for civs that start with Mysticism, it's a decent hammer sink when you choose to grow while researching worker techs.

Good points on losing a settler/archer for Stonehendge.

A point to consider, if you can get thesecond city build ontop of stone you may stand a good chance of popping Stonehenge outside of the capital.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

It pays for itself with 4 cities, as such its better value on larger maps where you will have more cities.

This math is questionable. 120 Hamburgers on Tuesday does not equal 120 hamburgers today, ant it assumes that you would necessarily build an monument in every city. Monuments have lousy ROI - with the exception of the uber buildings, you are really only constructing them because the alternatives are worse.

 

[madscientist]

This math is questionable. 120 Hamburgers on Tuesday does not equal 120 hamburgers today, ant it assumes that you would necessarily build an monument in every city. Monuments have lousy ROI - with the exception of the uber buildings, you are really only constructing them because the alternatives are worse.

Please define ROI?

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Presumably Return on Investment, or for you mad, retrun on instenvement.

 

[slobberinbear]

I am a big Stonehenge fan, mainly because I tend to play Native America and charismatic civilizations (love the free and quick promos). I also love great prophets, and it's a lot quicker to get them with Stonehenge than with Temple of Artemis or the Oracle. I have also gotten use out of the Stele for Zara (awesome culture multiplier), but never gotten a lot of use out of the Obelisk, which essentially enables a cheap SE once you have enough food and happiness to run the priests.

And great prophets are very underrated. Settling them aids production and provides enough gold to offset mainentance costs for another city in the early game. And if you end up founding or capturing a holy city, you can always build the shrine. Great Prophets are always useful, under any civic.

At any rate, there is no question that my infatuation with Stonehenge delays my expansion due to the hammer cost and makes rushing a lot harder (I'm making a diversion to Mysticism and possibly Masonry).

If I have stone, I usually go on a wonder binge and crank out Stonehenge, the Great Wall, and (after a delay with a few Settlers) Pyramids.

Lastly, it makes some sense to take Stonehenge simply to deny it to the AI. If you have a creative neighbor, you really don't want them getting it. Dealing with their culture is tough enough.

 

[The Rook]

A point to consider, if you can get thesecond city build ontop of stone you may stand a good chance of popping Stonehenge outside of the capital.

Hadn't thought of that. If you pre-chop 3 forests pre-Math and settle on stone, you could get SH in the same turn your second city is founded. Of course you may look foolish researching Masonry if you fail to pull it off, and your workers should have other high priorities at this time.

 

[Negator_UK]

A point to consider, if you can get thesecond city build ontop of stone you may stand a good chance of popping Stonehenge outside of the capital.

In fact i tend to build cities on top of stone if I'm going for early stone, because the 9 turns (on normal) that it takes to build a quarry is a big chunk of your worker availabilty that early in the game. It can make the difference both for winning the henge race and for the mids too. Mind you its not always worth the sacrifice if the resulting city is naffed up too much.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I hardly ever build on top of stone. A quarry has a better yield than a mine on a resourceless tile. I can start building the mids and get the multiplier later (and research maths before I finish any (pre-)chops usually), the stone city is likely to be a production city and normally builds units while the capital builds the mids.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

I like Standard thru Huge maps, so the Stonehenge is definitely worth it.

A point of note is that for Egypt specifically, this is an awesome wonder. Definitely worth it. With the 2 Prophet GPP from the Henge + 6GPP from 2 priests in that same city, you'll be popping your first prophet extremely quickly. Not that you'll want to devote 4 to 2 specialists right off the bat, but it definitely helps.

While on larger maps it seems to really come into its own, on smaller maps it would seem more vital to pop borders ASAP (non-CRE leaders) for resource grabbing and blocking off AIs. I used to always pass up Henge. Now I shoot for it every time I start with Myst or Egypt . Though, after reading this thread, I may make Myst my first research as long as I have a worker/food tech to start.

 

[petey]

Ya, while Stonehenge is nice, it's not worth the production loss of not being able to work the Stone tile. It's a nice little boost if you get it, but you're not really put out all that much if someone else does - especially if that someone else is a neighbour and you can just go and politely request it from him

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Settling on stone is something I would reserve for an emergency (IE it's far enough to settle your 3rd city not your 2nd to get) OR the city site itself is pretty weak. If it's a no-food-resource site or mostly plains with no rivers in other words.

Start with stone? Definitely grab the 'Henge