Wonders - the good, the bad and the ugly

chicken itza + louvre + taj mahal is just amazing. chained extended golden ages.

also, I think SoL is not worse in ciV then it was in civ IV. hammers are much more valuable, and +1 worker per city is at least as good as 1 free spec per city used to be.
 
Whaaaa. No one's mentioned forbidden palace? One of the best wonders in the game (at least for conquest)
 
i would like to say for the record that the taj mahal golden age lasted 25 turns

hah! others beat me to it
 
Whaaaa. No one's mentioned forbidden palace? One of the best wonders in the game (at least for conquest)

This is really the only wonder you need in a conquering game (which is apparently the way civ v was designed to be).

A +5 happiness wonder (notre dame) is hammers directly into the trash.
 
Anyone who dislikes SoL is crazy. Statue of Liberty turns the specialist economy from a pretty good thing to pure win.
 
I will try the Statue next time over.

So far the best findings in this thread were Oracle and Taj Mahal. Taj is still a :):):):):) to take since there's so much stuff on the bottom of the tree to get on the way to Press - but well, Taj is a great payment for getting through them all. I had a tough race for Taj even as Babylon but when you win it, especially if it's as Persians... boy oh boy. :)
 
Is anyone else upset that the wonders are completely bland?

Even if they were overpowered (and they are not), the abilities are just boring?

Free great person? Free social policy? Dull and unimaginative. I still like the pyramid-rep-settler economy of civ 4, and the Oracle slingshot to a religion or a Colossus that was actually decent. It's like they ran out of ideas for good stuff. The sad part is that some saps actually prefer these to the old versions:mad:
 
Is anyone else upset that the wonders are completely bland?

Even if they were overpowered (and they are not), the abilities are just boring?

Free great person? Free social policy? Dull and unimaginative. I still like the pyramid-rep-settler economy of civ 4, and the Oracle slingshot to a religion or a Colossus that was actually decent. It's like they ran out of ideas for good stuff. The sad part is that some saps actually prefer these to the old versions:mad:

Which ones in Civ4 were so much more profoundly interesting? Most of them are "one free <something>" be it building/specialists. If you'd like something like the old Pyramids, the Oracle SP could open up one SP tree instead of giving one free SP, so you could get Order in the BCs (and make it more expensive). Honestly, the new Great Lighthouse is considerably more interesting than the old one, with its black box trade routes.

And, in all honesty, Writing->Library->Civil Service is more interesting than the old Oracle->Civil Service slingshot, since it's actually less powerful. In Civ4, Oracle->CS won the game, whereas in Civ5 it's a huge bonus that comes with a huge tradeoff. If you're building The Great Library and researching Philosophy, you're not building Archers/Settlers and researching Iron Working/Optics, and thus potentially losing yourself the game.
 
Which ones in Civ4 were so much more profoundly interesting? Most of them are "one free <something>" be it building/specialists.

Fair question.

In my opinion, there were a ton of interesting wonders. Some examples

-Stonehenge: most of the time, not worth your while. However, it may be good sinking precious hammers into it if you're charismatic, Native American, Ethiopian, or Egyptian, or being culture pressed by a bunch of neighbors. In 5, it's always good, but it merely gives 8 culture per turn; it's a social policy machine.

-'Mids: no explanation needed. Pure strategic awesomeness.

-Great Library: Super tech boost! But you had to sink a ton of beakers into literature.

-Sankore/Minaret: provides a large benefit if you planned your cities well. You have to build a lot of temples/monestic buildings, spread religion, etc.

-AP: potential victory, but good gameplay options if you weren't going that route.

-Angkor: could help drastically increase the production of cities.

-Cristo Redentor: great for on-the-fly strategy swapping. Compare to the C5 version, where it's effect, though awesome, is totally passive, bland and shares it's ability with a social policy.

Basically, the wonders in 4 gave great bonuses...but you had to know how to utilize them. They required strategy to effectively manage. When I was a noob I would wonderspam, and not use them effectively for any real reason. As I got better, I learned how to utilize the abilities to great effect.

In 5, much of the strategy has been lost. You build the wonder, your things automatically get better. No real reason to plan. Just build and forget.
 
In contrast to the OP, I kind of like all the GP-generating Wonders. The thing with Civ V is that you don't always want to be building buildings or units. Sometimes, your city is stuck with nothing you want it to build, and it seems like a huge waste of hammers to make it build Wealth...

The Porcelain Tower is, IMO, a later, better GL indeed. In fact, I usually use it for exactly that purpose - slingshots. Generally, I'll save up one or two GS's so I can have some flexibility, then when the timing is right, shoot straight for Rifling or Dynamite. Heck, even shooting for Gunpowder's good enough depending on the timing.
 
Re: Statue of Liberty. It's very expensive. A great engineer will only build about 2/3 of it.
 
I'm pretty sure they aren't. I'm currently playing a game with only two cities and correspondingly low everything (like gold). I've had to reduce my worker force because they seemed to contribute to the unit count for which there's a cost.

No they dont. Wonders cost 0 in maintenance.
 
Pyramids really help with trade post spamming a puppet city with captured workers...but yea, conquer the city that built it.
 
I get policies much faster later in the game than earlier, not the other way around like you say.

I didn't apreciate Taj Mahal much either since I was getting golden ages other ways. But then I built it late game one time and noticed instead of the 3 turns each gp was giving me now, it gave me 16 turns. That's a lot
 
I usually beeline Stonehenge as soon as possible.
Pyramids critical if building a large empire. Not so important if keeping to a small empire.
 
does this scale with game speed? would it be longer in epic and shorter in quick games?

Yeah it does, on marathon, with Chitchen Itza i wet my pants when the Taj Mahal finished, 110 turns (+ - 10, cant remember exactly). That brought in a LOT of moneys
 
doesn't the Pyramids speed up worker PRODUCTION and not how fast the workers themselves are built? That's how i thought it worked, if so it's more useful than what the OP has said.
 
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