Wonders - the good, the bad and the ugly

[taltamir]

Yeah it does, on marathon, with Chitchen Itza i wet my pants when the Taj Mahal finished, 110 turns (+ - 10, cant remember exactly). That brought in a LOT of moneys

that is awesome... the culture based ones do not scale AFAIK... so a 5 turn golden age from piety is really nice for a fast game, but atrociously poor choice in a marathon.

 

[Lyoncet]

Isn't it 5 turns from adopting Rationalism and 6 from taking Reformation?

Possibly a nitpick, but I always play on Epic and that's what I get. If you actually do get 5 from the piety on normal, then that means that yes, they do scale up. If you actually meant the Rationalism GA, then they don't.

 

[Magil]

that is awesome... the culture based ones do not scale AFAIK... so a 5 turn golden age from piety is really nice for a fast game, but atrociously poor choice in a marathon.

No, they do scale. In marathon at least, the golden age length is double what it lists for the Piety/Rationalism social policies.

 

[taltamir]

No, they do scale. In marathon at least, the golden age length is double what it lists for the Piety/Rationalism social policies.

that is good, then it is just a case of badly documented policies (aka, they do not adjust their text when you change the game speed)

 

[gingerbill]

can't believe not many people build pyramids . after taj mahal its probably my favourite wonder. After i play a game with it , it kills me to play without it.

 

[Nunya]

On higher difficulties it's practically impossible to build any ancient wonders and very hard to build classical ones. You only really stand a decent chance to build the medieval and later ones.

Since ICS seems to be the dominant strategy (along with Horseman rushing) the best wonder in the game is Forbidden Palace by a long shot. Chichen Itza, Himeji Castle, Taj Mahal, Big Ben, and Statue of Liberty are also good.

 

[Poomermon]

Basically the only wonder I always want to build is the forbidden palace. It just gives so much happiness for larger empires that it is not even funny. Another powerful wonder is the statue of liberty but it is so darn expensive that without a great engineer I usually don't bother with it. I like pyramids and stonehenge too but it's not worth trying to get them on higher difficulties. Still it always brings smile to my face when there is an announcement that my neighbour just build the stonehenge. How thoughtful of them to use their hammers for (soon-to-be-mine) wonder and not for military.

 

[uberdubersoldat]

In my capital I find myself lately always building any wonder that lists "Great Scientist Points" +1 or +2:

Great Library
Oracle
Porcelain Tower
Brandenburg Gate

then as a secondary objective go for Statue of Liberty, combined with a specialist economy working the library, university, school and research facility with the added bonuses from a national college and oxford.... you get a gigantic science capital and can easily pop over 10 great scientists a game with your capital alone.


Then all expansion cities can focus on war and all that, knowing what cities to specialize in allows you to know what wonders you need and can prepare for them.

 

[Fluxx]

Wow.

1. Find witty intriguing title for thread? Check
2. Make the thread about a poll for semantics? Check
3. Make your own incomplete biased list with no arguments whatsoever then your own opinions? Check

Golden formula, and it always work. To bad its a waste of forum space
Moderator Action: Trolling is not allowed in this forum!

 

[zuraffo]

It all depends on your play style.

But there's one wonder that's almost universally good, and it's the forbidden palace. Not so great for cultural victory, but if you plan to have more than 8 cities this is a must have.

Not to mention it is close to broken with rex/ics.

 

[Dudu42]

Don't know if this was already mentioned, but freebies wonders have a addictional advantage.

Conquering them wont give you any advantage.
That's a huge difference in early rushes.

For example, Ramses II is building the Stonehenge. You, Alex, are building a couple of hoplites instead. Whta that means? Means Ramses isn't building for HIM, but for YOU. All you have to do is rush and conquer.

Again, you conquered Thebes and have the Stonehenge wonder. Now you start working Oracle while the enemy works for Colossus. You finish Oracle, free SP, and get the Colossus from enemy!

That said, Taj Mahal is a must have. Oracle is damn good and Sydney's Theater is awesome. Great Library is good but Porcelain Tower is amazing as you can save de GS and slingshot when you want.

 

[Jharii]

* Pyramids - 50% faster worker production? Meh. I either steal workers from city states or just purchase handful of them I need and am willing to maintain.

I think you have misread this, unless I'm missing something. This means that the workers work faster. This does not meant that your city produces workers faster. This plus the civil bonus of 25% means super fast workers (roads in 2 turns, most tiles upgraded in 3-4 turns).

This is one of the best wonders, imho, especially for sprawling empires.

doesn't the Pyramids speed up worker PRODUCTION and not how fast the workers themselves are built? That's how i thought it worked, if so it's more useful than what the OP has said.

Just caught this after I posted. Yes.

 

[mbova]

I disagree with the The Porcelain Tower - scientist is equal to free tech.

 

[Creepy Old Man]

Hijimeji castle - It's not just for defense. If your crossbow is standing in your territory, and shooting an enemy outside, you get the bonus. This works for artillery too, and you can usually set up artillery to hit the target from within friendly territory. Especially since allied city states count as friendly territory, as do any other civ that you've got open borders with.

So, basically, Hijimeji is across-the-board +25% to all combat.

 

[taltamir]

Don't know if this was already mentioned, but freebies wonders have a addictional advantage.

Conquering them wont give you any advantage.
That's a huge difference in early rushes.

For example, Ramses II is building the Stonehenge. You, Alex, are building a couple of hoplites instead. Whta that means? Means Ramses isn't building for HIM, but for YOU. All you have to do is rush and conquer.

Again, you conquered Thebes and have the Stonehenge wonder. Now you start working Oracle while the enemy works for Colossus. You finish Oracle, free SP, and get the Colossus from enemy!

That said, Taj Mahal is a must have. Oracle is damn good and Sydney's Theater is awesome. Great Library is good but Porcelain Tower is amazing as you can save de GS and slingshot when you want.

Generally I agree with you there. when an enemy is building a wonder that doesn't give a freebie to the person who built it, you are better off building troops to conquer said wonder.
But you don't know who would be the first to finish it, it could be someone on the other side of the world, where you will not get the opportunity to conquer it any time soon.

 

[zimmah]

wonders are for singleplayer.

if you make any wonders multiplayer, they will just go to the one who conquers them from you.

i'll happily accept any wonders in cities i conquer tho.

 

[Dudu42]

Generally I agree with you there. when an enemy is building a wonder that doesn't give a freebie to the person who built it, you are better off building troops to conquer said wonder.
But you don't know who would be the first to finish it, it could be someone on the other side of the world, where you will not get the opportunity to conquer it any time soon.

That's the price, Taltamir.
Eventually a foreign city will build a wonder. It's not that you're completely ignoring every non freebie wonder for the entire game. But I think you should ignore most ancient/classic wonders and build military units instead.

 

[bigwinw]

What about The Forbidden Palace - Unhappiness from number of cities reduced by 50%, +1 Culture, +1 Great Artist points

This is a MUST when you are building a large empire (or taking over the world)

 

[weregamer]

I don't see anybody looking at the Great Person part of the wonder equation. Frex, The Great Wall's meh main effect is improved with both decent culture and high Great Engineer points. Since GE points have the fewest (and most expensive) specialist buildings, this is significant.

 

[Roxlimn]

I look at the GPP parts. I generally stack up Wonders with similar GPPs in the same city.