Word "slave" in English should be uprooted.

[warpus]

Polandball was of course modelled after the great success of the Singaporecube, which was a meme on fidonet before the advent of the internet.

 

[aelf]

Wrong. Singapore is a pyramid.

I have no idea why.

 

[bhavv]

Id remove that comic before a mod sees the naughty word!

 

[daft]

Actually the idea of Lebensraum was justified by another claim - that Slavs are allegedly not native anywhere. That they all came from the small region of Pripyat Marshes and in all other areas they are just aliens who stole the land from someone else - like for example from East Germanic tribes. Hitler even wanted to expell Slavs to Asia as he believed that they were immigrants from Asia who had first come to Pripyat Marshes, and then spread from there farther.

Funnily enough, modern genetic research of ancient DNA indicates the opposite - these are Germans who are less indigenous to Europe than Slavs.

Unfortunately Domen, the Westerners would much more gladly listen to those Nazi slogans than the DNA proof, the bigotry against Slavic people is still alive today.
How do you end it? By changing the word Slave to less derogatory one, for the sake of Slavic people out there.
Considering the amount of persecution in the medieval era it's quite amazing the Slavs (or Slavians, as they prefer to call themselves) still exist.

 

[daft]

Got to change the names of the following nations:
Germany - rhymes with Germs too much
Hungary - they must be very hungry over there
Turkey - A delicious tasting bird, but a country? I mean, come on!

 

[daft]

Good luck trying to control the English Language.

English Language should return to the OLD English traditions, it's too simplistic as it is now. Most Slavic languages are far more complicated than modern English, ain't that true?

 

[daft]

Western political correctness is very shallow and characterized by hypocrisy.

It is only a facade of PC speech, behind which the real feelings are hidden. The reason why norms of PC speech do not apply to Slavic nations (as you accurately pointed out) is, however, not because they are seen as part of the same civilization, but because they are seen as part of the same race.

And while racism is unacceptable in modern Western PC rhetoric, ethnicism is not that much condemned.

Jews are a special case - anti-Jewish remarks aren't considered racist or ethnicist, but anti-Semitic - which is considered a type of prejudice on its own.

Official PC rhetoric is that Jews are not even an ethnic group (let alon a race!), but merely a religious group.

It's also being "forgotten" (read: deliberately erased from public memory), that German anti-Semitism was driven by racism, not by Christian prejudices.

Hear, Hear!

You can tell a ton of jokes about how money-pinching and stingy Scots are with their dough, but Jews, who share a very similar trait are exempt from such jokery because of fear of Anti-Semitism.

You can simply say whatever you want about any Christian out there, without fear of any consequence, but against a Jew?

 

[Domen]

^ The main genetic Y-DNA marker of Northern Slavic (West and East Slavic) populations is R1a haplogroup. It is said that Slavs expanded to areas of Poland and East Germany only in the Early Middle Ages. But ancient DNA evidence shows that people with R1a marker (so genetic ancestors of Northern Slavs) inhabited these areas already during the Copper, Bronze and Early Iron Ages. By contrast Western European populations (Italo-Celtic and most of Germanics) are characterized by Y-DNA haplogroup R1b.

These are locations of ancient DNA samples of R1a and R1b haplogroups found so far, from period 8000 - 2000 years ago:

The two oldest samples - 7500 ybp (from Southern Deer Island, Lake Onega, Karelia) and 6000 ybp (found near the city of Velizh) were hunter-gatherers.

Samples of R1a from Poland and East Germany were found in the context of Copper-Bronze Age Corded Ware cultures (4600 ybp, 4400 ybp and 4000 ybp), as well as the Lusatian Culture (3100 ybp). Samples of R1b from Germany were found in the context of Copper-Bronze Age Bell Beaker cultures (4500 ybp and 4300 ybp):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corded_Ware_culture

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaker_culture

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusatian_culture

Only the burial site belonging to Urnfield cultural horizon located near Dorste (3000 ybp) happened to contain both R1a (x2) and R1b (x1):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urnfield_culture

The most important of all settlements of the Lusatian Culture found so far, was Biskupin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biskupin


Link to video.

 

[Domen]

These are locations of ancient DNA samples of R1a and R1b haplogroups found so far, from period 8000 - 2000 years ago:

And modern dominant haplogroups by country for comparison - R1b is pink here (while R1a is red like before):

 

[Leoreth]

Say, Domen, have you ever noticed that the thread is usually over after you start pulling out those maps?

 

[Thorgalaeg]

The last one is indeed about how the EU should be: Western countries only plus... Armenia???

 

[Domen]

The last one is indeed about how the EU should be: Western countries only plus... Armenia???

Britain will probably leave the EU in 2017.

Thus undermining the Y-DNA basis of "EUWesternism".

 

[Godwynn]

Why are Slavs so concerned about all things "Slavic?"

Not once have I ever heard a Spaniard talk of a brother "Latin." The French don't give a flying crap apart from their own language. The Germans left this ideology dead and buried in the 40's. The English surely don't think of themselves some part of greater Germanic brotherhood. Why is it only the poor and destitute areas of Eastern and Southern Europe that care so much about their language family?

 

[bhavv]

And why are Indians so concerned about all things Indian ...

Living in English speaking countries and still insisting in communicating in their jibberish.

I refuse to speak in jibberish anymore. If any of those pesky anti westerners come up to me again with their 'do you speak gujerati?' ...

'I LIVE IN ENGLAND AND I SPEAK IN ENGLISH. IF YOU DONT WANT TO, OR CANT SPEAK ENGLISH THEN LEAVE ME ALONE AND GO BOTHER SOME OTHER BROWNIE!'.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Why are Slavs so concerned about all things "Slavic?"

Not once have I ever heard a Spaniard talk of a brother "Latin." The French don't give a flying crap apart from their own language. The Germans left this ideology dead and buried in the 40's. The English surely don't think of themselves some part of greater Germanic brotherhood. Why is it only the poor and destitute areas of Eastern and Southern Europe that care so much about their language family?

Probably several factors. One is the history of foreign rule and partition. Prussia/Germany and Russia in Poland and the Ottoman Empire in the Balkans. It makes people more obsessed with "their own" traditions, especially when the foreigner comes from a very different culture. Then there's the fact that most Slavs are Ortodox Christians and use variations of the Cyrillic alphabet which sets them somewhat apart from the rest of Europe.

 

[Leoreth]

Except West Slavs, otherwise known as fake Slavs.

 

[Domen]

Why are Slavs so concerned about all things "Slavic?"
And why are Indians so concerned about all things Indian ...

Genetics?

Slavs share R1a-Z645 haplogroup (expansion time: 5000-4900 years ago) with Indians:

http://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z645/

5400 years ago (ybp) R1a-M417 branch (northern Proto-Indo-European) begot R1a-CTS4385 (north-western European) and R1a-Z645. Then 4900 ybp Z645 begot Z283 (north-eastern European) and Z93 (Indo-Iranian). No more than a few generations later (4900 ybp) Z283 begot Z282, and that 4900 ybp begot Z280 (Balto-Slavic), 4600 ybp it begot M458 (West Slavic) and 4500 ybp it begot Z284 (Scandinavian / Proto-Germanic). While 4700 ybp Z93 begot Z94 (Indo-Aryan).

 

[Leoreth]

Genetics?

Haha, no.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Genetics?

Oh yeah, forgot about genetics. The Serbian peasant who feels culturally related to Russia knows his haplogroups.
Oh, sorry. i'm strawmaning your porst. You probably meant that Slavs smell right to each other while the Germanics and Celts just smell wrong.

 

[Domen]

Serbs actually have mostly I2a haplogroup, R1a comes second in Serbia.

Apparently I2a folks are even more concerned about themselves than R1a folks.

Slavs smell right to each other while the Germanics and Celts just smell wrong.

"Original" Germanics (Scandinavians) are some 40% I1, which is probably the marker of first farmers who moved to Scandinavia. They also have R1b (especially Danes), R1a (especially Norwegians) and N1c (especially Swedes).

In Scandinavia we have the following Y-DNA patterns in period since 8000 years ago until the Iron Age:

1. Hunter-gatherers of southern Scandinavia:

Kongemose culture - haplogroup I2 (I2a1 and I2c)
Pitted Ware culture - haplogroup I2 (I2a1 and I2c)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kongemose_culture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitted_Ware_culture

2. Immigration of Neolithic farmers (TRB culture):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funnelbeaker_culture

Northern group of TRB culture - I1 (descended from previous Neolithic LBK culture)

Why do I think that I1 came to Scandinavia with Neolithic TRB farmers? Because a sample of I1 was found in ca. 7500 years old burial of LBK culture in Hungary (Neolithic farmers - Linear Pottery culture), from which the TRB (Funnel Beaker culture) later evolved. Of course not entire TRB was I1, but the northernmost group of TRB could become I1 due to a founder effect. Those I1 people came as Neolithic farmers and largely replaced Y-DNA haplogroups of Mesolithic hunter-gatherers (I2a1 and I2c), but absorbed a rather large part of their maternal lineages (mtDNA).

I1 was originally a marker of hunter-gatherers, but it became assimilated by Neolithic farmers (mostly G2a) in Hungary and mixed with them, acquiring Neolithic autosomal DNA. Later probably a founder effect (migration of a relatively small group) and chance, caused the spread of I1 - but not G2a - to Scandinavia with TRB people.

Neolithic farmers came to Europe from the Near East (they had haplogroups G, E1b, T1, H2, J, etc.). After moving to Europe they gradually absorbed some of "indigenous" European haplogroups (like I, C1).

3. Copper-Bronze Ages (Indo-European invasion):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Bronze_Age

3a) North-westernmost group of Corded Ware culture - R1a-Z284 and R1a-CTS4385 (incl. mostly L664),
3b) North-eastern group of Bell Beaker culture - R1b (probably U106 subclade ?)

It seems that R1a-Z284 & L664 came first and penetrated deeper towards the north, while Beaker folks came later and initially stayed more confined to southern part of Scandinavia. This would explain the patterns of modern distribution of haplogroups in Scandinavia (R1a frequency peaks in Norway, while R1b frequency in Denmark).

4. Earlier part of the Iron Age:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jastorf_culture

4a) Influence of Hallstatt culture (Celts) on Nordic Bronze Age, leads to emergence of Jastorf culture,
4b) Influence of La Tene culture (Celts) on Jastorf culture, leads to so called latenization of the latter:

Latenization - an archaeological term referring to the diffusion of the Celtic culture called after the Swiss site of La Tène.

During 4a) and 4b) I suppose that more R1b (was it still U106 or other subclades ?) was introduced to Scandinavia by the Celts - at first by Hallstatt influence on the Nordic Bronze Age, then by La Tene on Jastorf. During that early period Celtic-speaking peoples exerted strong influence on proto-Germanic-speaking peoples. PGMC terms for 'ruler/king', 'kingdom', 'iron', 'medic', 'mail shirt', 'town', etc. were loanwords from Celtic according to linguist Donald Ringe. In early written sources we also find suspiciously many leaders of Germanic-speaking tribes, who had Celtic names (e.g. Boiorix, Lugins, Claodicus, Ceasorix, Marbod, Ariovistus - all of these appear to be names of Celtic linguistic origin).

====================================

There is also hg Q (mostly sub-branch Q1a2b1 L527) in Scandinavia. It was probably introduced by the Huns:

http://www.academia.edu/5352394/Sca...terdisciplinary_Approach_to_the_Migration_Era

Though there are also other theories on how it got to Scandinavia (e.g. Vikings returning from America).

Q is mostly present in Native Americans and Greenlanders, as well as in many East Asians and Central Asians.