Workers of the world, unite! [RFC RAND]

[nody]

List of Russian czars, 860-1167

How do you come up with those names?

I would just Russificate all nicknames of the players, like Anothrov Pacifiski and Dangorsk Birdov...

 

[Danger Bird]

Alexey II the Ignorant (1087-1102)...
..., Alexey is infamous for one of the biggest gaffes of early Russian history; despite, due to a well-developed spying system, the fact that he had become aware of rumors regarding a huge barbarian uprising between the eastern outposts of his empire and the Chinese town of Luoyang, he did nothing to evacuate the area, nor he informed anyone about it.

Never heard any of those rumours. Didn't see any barbarians in the east at all between 1060-1160, and I thought it was very odd.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Maybe this is all taken from the secret history of Russia (remember the Anecdota of Procopius of Caesarea)?

And some of those who have been with Justinian at the palace late at night, men who were pure of spirit, have thought they saw a strange demoniac form taking his place. One man said that the Emperor suddenly rose from his throne and walked about, and indeed he was never wont to remain sitting for long, and immediately Justinian's head vanished, while the rest of his body seemed to ebb and flow; whereat the beholder stood aghast and fearful, wondering if his eyes were deceiving him. But presently he perceived the vanished head filling out and joining the body again as strangely as it had left it.
Another said he stood beside the Emperor as he sat, and of a sudden the face changed into a shapeless mass of flesh, with neither eyebrows nor eyes in their proper places, nor any other distinguishing feature; and after a time the natural appearance of his countenance returned.

lol!!!

 

[Jusos2108]

Hmm, I know that I am a bit too anxious, but I just wondering is youknowwhatitis going to play at all, since he hasn't been online in 4 days. After all the speculation it would nice to see how it all plays out... But it might be just me.

At least IMO BurnEmDown could play next and if youknowwhatitis shows up, he can be next.

 

[micbic]

Never heard any of those rumours. Didn't see any barbarians in the east at all between 1060-1160, and I thought it was very odd.

From "History of Central Asia: From Barbarian to civilized, Malik Bagh, 1530"

"At the fall of the 11th century, while the first Turkish tribes begun immigrating towards Europe, a young chieftain, leader of the Uyghur tribe, Temu Khan (1056-1113), started his quest of unifying all the small and weak Khanates, lying between the established kingdoms of Rus and China. After seemingly achieving his aim, after long, and bloody struggles, Temu, using revolutionary tactics in the battlefield, based on mounted units, decided to expand his reign by attacking the Russians and the Chinese. However, while he was amassing his forces, he died in the age of 57, due to pneumonia. His vision, however, would turn into reality in one century by his grand-grand son, Temu Jin.

Oh, lets wait till tomorrow, and then Burn will play his turnset.

EDIT: DE-SPOILED!

 

[BurnEmDown]

Well tomorrow I'll be able to play only in the evening, so I think this will give youknowwhatitis plenty of time to play.
If he didn't post saying he'll play by tomorrow evening I'll pick up the save file and start playing, but I'll probably finish by the next day (like, 5 turns and then a break, and then another 5 turns).

 

[Danger Bird]

In the first post micbic said 96 hours for a turnset, but I am not sure that we are that patient.

A more common rule, I believe, is 24h for a 'got it' and then 48h to post the turns and the new save.

That should be reasonable, as everyone will know when their turn is coming up, and if they know they cannot play that set, they can ask to switch places with the next player, or simply to be skipped for one round.

 

[Danger Bird]

Warning! Do not open. Contains important information!

Spoiler :

From "History of Central Asia: From Barbarian to civilized, Malik Bagh, 1530"

Spoiler :

"At the fall of the 11th century, while the first Turkish tribes begun immigrating towards Europe, a young chieftain, leader of the Uyghur tribe, Temu Khan (1056-1113), started his quest of unifying all the small and weak Khanates, lying between the established kingdoms of Rus and China. After seemingly achieving his aim, after long, and bloody struggles, Temu, using revolutionary tactics in the battlefield, based on mounted units, decided to expand his reign by attacking the Russians and the Chinese. However, while he was amassing his forces, he died in the age of 57, due to pneumonia. His vision, however, would turn into reality in one century by his grand-grand son, Temu Jin.

OK, I won't look. (And I have to hold my hand over it while typing this reply.), but then, why did you post it, if I am not to look?

 

[micbic]

OK, I won't look. (And I have to hold my hand over it while typing this reply.), but then, why did you post it, if I am not to look?

For the lurkers
Anyway, you will understand at the next turnset. (I will despoil it then)

 

[BurnEmDown]

I have a feeling the Mongols will spawn extra close.

 

[Jusos2108]

Well tomorrow I'll be able to play only in the evening, so I think this will give youknowwhatitis plenty of time to play.
If he didn't post saying he'll play by tomorrow evening I'll pick up the save file and start playing, but I'll probably finish by the next day (like, 5 turns and then a break, and then another 5 turns).

Sounds good to me.

I have a feeling the Mongols will spawn extra close.

Me too, and they'll take our Iron. The space between us and China is very narrow. Hope they fight it out with the chinese, so that we can come in to clean up.

In the first post micbic said 96 hours for a turnset, but I am not sure that we are that patient.

A more common rule, I believe, is 24h for a 'got it' and then 48h to post the turns and the new save.

I totally agree.

 

[nody]

Yunovsk Whatitiskij was to become the next Czar in 1168, but he disappeared from the Palace due to unknown reasons to a house in a remote village near Kiev.

His cousin Burnemov Dovnsk was ready to take his place if he didn't respond to his letters.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I have to say that the iron area seems too resource-rich not to be a spawning point for the Mongols.
And Novgorod might very well flip to them...
Maybe somebody made an attempt on our current Tsar's life and that's why he's incognito...

 

[onedreamer]

If we contend the flip of cities in the Turkish spawn area, how do we deal with our units flipping over while we are defending? (But I suppose that's an issue for later, as we definitely will be conquering cities down there.)

You don't need to defend it, the Turks will most likely NOT try to get it, or at least not seriously, as I have explained.

And, Do we have to take micbic's 'hint' and found near the Azov lakes? I'd rather not.

In RFC, a city with sea access is worth at least 4 times more than a city without sea access.

I am fairly certain (read: I hope) that the turkish spawn zone ends below the mountain ridge southeast of Moskva. Therefore I am willing to take a risk to found cities on that line or above. So unless scouting proves me otherwise, I think we should found a city 1NW from the rice. IMO the risk is minimal.

Actually I talked about Mongolian spawn by the rice, not Turkish:

I have to say that the iron area seems too resource-rich not to be a spawning point for the Mongols.
And Novgorod might very well flip to them...

this...


And I have some remarks on how cities were founded. First of all they are too stretched out, even in vanilla Civ they would be too stretched out. This makes them harder to be defended. Both Kiev and Novgorod could have been built on a hill for extra defense but they weren't. The most important fact is that the first round of cities should NEVER be built at more than 4 tiles from the capital in RAND because if you do they are at high risk of flipping and losing first tier cities is really bad. No wonder you guys complain about losing cities on spawn. We also technically lost two cities to barbarians. We have poor army and poor infrastructure so right now I would build workers and soldiers not settlers and libraries. We need army and roads to fight Mongols and Turks. Our general goals are to conquer cities, build mines and build workers. The Mongols will build cities for us

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Well, would you found Kiev in RFC on the coast, knowing that the Black Sea is a flip zone for the Turks?
Stretching out west won't flip those cities. When I played RAND before, I've seen the Germans take out almost all the good land from Russia if they are allowed to expand westward...obviously that's bad for our game.
Nobody is going to attack us at this time on our western borders, not yet. (Vikings are still pleased with us)
Players have different styles (you obviously like to found cities closer to the spawning point). I would rather sacrifice maintenance fees and a risk of early invasion than not getting good European land.
(People have been suggesting that we should make the AI get an independent Kiev and Tallin--well, that's just dandy for the AI, to take advantage of human insight after it's been proven correct!)

 

[Jusos2108]

You don't need to defend it, the Turks will most likely NOT try to get it, or at least not seriously, as I have explained.

The location of Hattusas sucks, since I assume that we don't want our cities to overlap. Therefore we raze it, no point resisting the flip for a crappy city.

Actually I talked about Mongolian spawn by the rice, not Turkish

Well I just gave an estimate where the Turkish spawn zone might be at the best (or worst from our point of view) using the ridge as a landmark.

And I have some remarks on how cities were founded. First of all they are too stretched out, even in vanilla Civ they would be too stretched out. This makes them harder to be defended. Both Kiev and Novgorod could have been built on a hill for extra defense but they weren't. The most important fact is that the first round of cities should NEVER be built at more than 4 tiles from the capital in RAND because if you do they are at high risk of flipping and losing first tier cities is really bad. No wonder you guys complain about losing cities on spawn.

To whom is St. Petersburg going to flip?? According to you: "In RFC, a city with sea access is worth at least 4 times more than a city without sea access.", so the location also worth 4 times more anyways. Founding cities within 4 tiles from your capital is not smart when playing as Russia. We are not planning to defend, hmm what was that phrase, attack is the best defence. We are discussing possible losses, as I recall so far we haven't lost anything...

We also technically lost two cities to barbarians. We have poor army and poor infrastructure so right now I would build workers and soldiers not settlers and libraries. We need army and roads to fight Mongols and Turks. Our general goals are to conquer cities, build mines and build workers. The Mongols will build cities for us

You mean that you would have kept those crappy cities one tile a part?! And how would you have defended them against the barbarian hordes?
Why should we conquer cities that the AI places poorly, when we can found them ourselves, on the best spots, before AI gets there with much less trouble?

Attacking Turkey or Mongolia from their spawn must be the worst idea ever. Both spawn with reasonable armies and it would be really stupid to challenge them. Like wasting resources/hammers. We can gain much more land, easily, by founding cities after their spawn and attacking them later.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Attacking Turkey or Mongolia from their spawn must be the worst idea ever. Both spawn with reasonable armies and it would be really stupid to challenge them. Like wasting resources/hammers. We can gain much more land, easily, by founding cities after their spawn and attacking them later.

The AI likes to spread out their army so that each city has 1-2 units at least. That's when we should attack.
Attacking from spawn probably only works for England. I think Rhye has fixed the "all units except tasty undefended settlers empty from initial city" bug, but I might be wrong. I've been guilty of using this trick with Corossol's mod recently...

 

[Danger Bird]

We have poor army and poor infrastructure so right now I would build workers and soldiers not settlers and libraries. We need army and roads to fight Mongols and Turks. Our general goals are to conquer cities, build mines and build workers. The Mongols will build cities for us

I think we have enough workers for now (7) as they have completed improvements near Moskva and almost completed around Kiev. All reachable mines are done. The 5 workers in the west can have the Petersburg road done within 6 turns and then rapidly develop that area. The 2 in the east won't will have enough Novgorod tiles developed in ~15 turns.

We do need more soldiers now. Probably number 1 need. My idea was to get the 'must have' buildings (forges, libraries, monastery/mkt for capital) done as quickly as possible, so we could then build lots of units (and some settlers) without worrying that our cities were underdeveloped on commerce/science.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Another one of my pet peeves--not enough trees in Asia. Usually China and Russia I can rapidly get going because of chopping, but here it's like empty of trees which is unreal. I'm surprised the earth isn't hotter already (global warming).

 

[nody]

Not to spoil the fun, but why don't we wait until the end of the weekend to restart the game with the new patch?

I'm sure everyone here wants to play the new patched versions the minute they are released.

We didn't have much progress the last couple of days anyway, thanks to a certain Yunovsk Whatitiskij...