Workers of the world, unite! [RFC RAND]
- Thread starter micbic
- Start date
Danger Bird
gravity's angel
I'd vote to finish this one as well. Don't know exactly when testing will be done on the new patches. And we know that this version of RAND, while not perfect, works.
But will go with the majority.
But will go with the majority.
BurnEmDown
Emperor
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Yeah, I'd like to finish this one. It should take too long.
I would play now but I'm on a civ-less computer, will only be home in about 4 hours, maybe a little longer.
I would play now but I'm on a civ-less computer, will only be home in about 4 hours, maybe a little longer.
nody
Emperor
I'll go with the majority on this one.
I don't play RAND besides this SG anyway.
I don't play RAND besides this SG anyway.
BurnEmDown
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After 3 full pages of only discussion and no play, it's time to continue the SG!
The starting situation looks fine, Moscow will finish market and grow on the same turn next turn, and will then start building a settler. Novgorod needs more improvements around it and will build a forge after it finishes building a horse archer the next turn. St. Petersburg will finish library next turn and will then build a work boat and then a galley (switched their order since galley isn't really needed). And Kiev will build a forge the next turn and then a longbowman in two, (switched the order again, why hold off a forge that is ready to be built?) Kiev reached it's happy cap so it will build workers once it reaches 1 turn away from growth, and maybe get a great scientist after 2 workers?
1st turn (1170): For now the spy will spy on the former-Greek independent city to the southwest. Thought we converted already to Confucianism so only converted now instead of on last turn.
2nd turn (1180): Longbowman arrived in St. Petersburg, swordsman sent to the main stack near Kiev. Kiev is no longer near it's happiness cap due to forge, religion, and slavery anger gone.
3rd turn (1190): The Mongols spawn to the southeast. If we settle on the marked spot asap we can get their Iron I think, so Moscow rushed 3 turns off of the settler for 2 population points.
4th turn (1200): Spy reached indy lands and they just look tastier and tastier:
As you can see, I also lowered research down to 60% (we would have been out of gold in just a few turns).
AP religion is Confucianism, how come we don't have some temples and monasteries yet? Started building some.
5th turn (1210): Novgorod wants to flip to the Mongolians. I will take a stop here and will continue tomorrow after we decide wether to let it flip or fight for it. Also note in the picture that the Mongolians are going north, probably to settle on our delicious city spot.
I've uploaded the save at the end of the 4th turn if you guys want to assess the situation better.
The starting situation looks fine, Moscow will finish market and grow on the same turn next turn, and will then start building a settler. Novgorod needs more improvements around it and will build a forge after it finishes building a horse archer the next turn. St. Petersburg will finish library next turn and will then build a work boat and then a galley (switched their order since galley isn't really needed). And Kiev will build a forge the next turn and then a longbowman in two, (switched the order again, why hold off a forge that is ready to be built?) Kiev reached it's happy cap so it will build workers once it reaches 1 turn away from growth, and maybe get a great scientist after 2 workers?
1st turn (1170): For now the spy will spy on the former-Greek independent city to the southwest. Thought we converted already to Confucianism so only converted now instead of on last turn.
2nd turn (1180): Longbowman arrived in St. Petersburg, swordsman sent to the main stack near Kiev. Kiev is no longer near it's happiness cap due to forge, religion, and slavery anger gone.
3rd turn (1190): The Mongols spawn to the southeast. If we settle on the marked spot asap we can get their Iron I think, so Moscow rushed 3 turns off of the settler for 2 population points.
4th turn (1200): Spy reached indy lands and they just look tastier and tastier:
As you can see, I also lowered research down to 60% (we would have been out of gold in just a few turns).
AP religion is Confucianism, how come we don't have some temples and monasteries yet? Started building some.
5th turn (1210): Novgorod wants to flip to the Mongolians. I will take a stop here and will continue tomorrow after we decide wether to let it flip or fight for it. Also note in the picture that the Mongolians are going north, probably to settle on our delicious city spot.
I've uploaded the save at the end of the 4th turn if you guys want to assess the situation better.
AnotherPacifist
Deity
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I think we can defend it. Whip some catapults sacrifice them against stacks, and put spearmen in one by one from the west to defend Novgorod (where our culture still predominates, 2 tiles W of the city, i.e. we can still put troops in safely). Whip walls ASAP (forget the forge). All troops retreat north or west to avoid flipping.
Chances are that China is also at war with them.
Another way to do it is to allow the flip (but please reload and evacuate all units first at least 2 tiles away), then declare war and recapture it right away.
This is yet another reason why I don't like RAND. The Mongols should have spawned north of China in barren territory, not in central Asia.
Chances are that China is also at war with them.
Another way to do it is to allow the flip (but please reload and evacuate all units first at least 2 tiles away), then declare war and recapture it right away.
This is yet another reason why I don't like RAND. The Mongols should have spawned north of China in barren territory, not in central Asia.
Danger Bird
gravity's angel
That is much further west than where I thought they would spawn.
I agree with AP, and with his method. Also, what do you think are the chances of trading for engineering with the Persians after we have put a few more beakers in? (see screenie below) (EDIT: Actually very remote. Just noticed they are annoyed, and we are a long ways off. Forget it.)
I agree with AP, and with his method. Also, what do you think are the chances of trading for engineering with the Persians after we have put a few more beakers in? (see screenie below) (EDIT: Actually very remote. Just noticed they are annoyed, and we are a long ways off. Forget it.)
Yes it is, very annoying.
After a while I don't know what I was thinking when I said not to challenge it.
Of course we are going to do that and fight a bitter war against them. Kharakorum is so far south that only few of our units will flip. Since the flipping units are taken from the bottom of the stack (IIRC we had some warriors
) our settlers and workers need go as far away from Novgorod as possible.The tech trade is actually a good idea. We just need to collect some money from our friends and gift it to Persia to gain the +4. Persia is very eager tech trader, so might just get it. They might even be at war with Mongolia as well.
Danger Bird
gravity's angel
Hadn't thought of that. We might be able to get the exchange with Persia after all.
But - another thing i forgot - pikemen need iron. So it won't help us immediately against the keshiks. We'll have to do it with spearmen.
BurnEmDown
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Is everyone OK to reloading to the 3rd turn, so that we can evacuate Novgorod and maybe not lose the Iron city site too?
And one more thing, should I slave-rush the settler one turn earlier than I originally did? Because to me it feels just too much like cheating.
And one more thing, should I slave-rush the settler one turn earlier than I originally did? Because to me it feels just too much like cheating.
Danger Bird
gravity's angel
I'd prefer not reloading. I generally lose interest in games when I have reloaded - as I know I have avoided some misfortune, I just don't feel proud of my result.
micbic
Optimistic Pessimist
Another vote against reloading; it feels a bit like cheating.
And yes, this Mongol spawn was the uprising Alexey understood, but never did anything to avoid, even though its first attempt by Temu Khan failed.
And yes, this Mongol spawn was the uprising Alexey understood, but never did anything to avoid, even though its first attempt by Temu Khan failed.
BurnEmDown
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OK then, I will let them keep Novgorod, but this means we'll probably have to manage without Iron in the nearby future.
Our military should try to capture the former Greek independents, and once we get Iron and Pikemen, we can think about invading Mongolia (if Turkey won't be too much of a threat).
Our military should try to capture the former Greek independents, and once we get Iron and Pikemen, we can think about invading Mongolia (if Turkey won't be too much of a threat).
BurnEmDown
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5th turn (1210): Novgorod flips to the Mongols, thankfully the settler was pushed, although to the West rather than the East which means the Mongols will probably steal our Iron. Spy discovers Argos to be moderately defended with two axemen, an archer, and a catapult. Argos is also struck by plague so maybe some will die once our main army arrives. Also, copper is located 1S of Argos, the city now seems like an incredible target, although if it hasn't any wonders I would suggest razing it and rebuilding 1N so it can grab the pigs (we should have a vote when it's captured, or just before).
6th turn (1220): Declared war on the independents, the spy can't do anything since it's damaged by the plague, but it will be healed in 2 turns. The Mongolians don't seem to move north with their settlers, I'm guessing this is due to them already having a northern city (Novgorod). Indy's built spearman, ouch:
And you can also see that the Germans are advancing as well. They only have 2 axemen and a catapult though, not much to worry about.
7th turn (1230): Indy's sent their spearman to our main stack to die, swordsman dealt with him with minor injuries and got promoted too. St. Petersburg's culture grew, fishing boats claimed crabs for Russia, the Mongolians seem to advance north again with their settlers, they should be able to reach the target location one turn earlier than we will:
8th turn (1240): Mongolians converted to Confucianism. Spy can't do anything at Argos, I forgot that we cant conduct espionage against ind's
. So, he moved to discover the west, which seems to be a recently captured, former independent, now German, Artaxata. Razing Argos seems out of the question now.
However, the Mongolians have settled their city, which isn't entirely blocking our desired city-spot. I'll stop now for more feedback since it's an important issue, wether to settle and start a culture war or not settle there and give them the iron. (If we settle we'll have iron in our BFC, and we might deny their iron).
Red is their city, Blue is where we want to settle.
If we do settle, we'll have to chop trees for library and hopefully religious buildings if we can, and we'll have a semi-remote city with iron. So I think it'll be best to settle there and fight the Mongols culturally until we can get Pikes. And one last thing which I'm not sure about, should I gift the Mongols Monotheism, or trade for 20g? Gifting will delay their attack, but 20g are valuable since we are draining our coffers.
6th turn (1220): Declared war on the independents, the spy can't do anything since it's damaged by the plague, but it will be healed in 2 turns. The Mongolians don't seem to move north with their settlers, I'm guessing this is due to them already having a northern city (Novgorod). Indy's built spearman, ouch:
And you can also see that the Germans are advancing as well. They only have 2 axemen and a catapult though, not much to worry about.
7th turn (1230): Indy's sent their spearman to our main stack to die, swordsman dealt with him with minor injuries and got promoted too. St. Petersburg's culture grew, fishing boats claimed crabs for Russia, the Mongolians seem to advance north again with their settlers, they should be able to reach the target location one turn earlier than we will:
8th turn (1240): Mongolians converted to Confucianism. Spy can't do anything at Argos, I forgot that we cant conduct espionage against ind's
. So, he moved to discover the west, which seems to be a recently captured, former independent, now German, Artaxata. Razing Argos seems out of the question now.However, the Mongolians have settled their city, which isn't entirely blocking our desired city-spot. I'll stop now for more feedback since it's an important issue, wether to settle and start a culture war or not settle there and give them the iron. (If we settle we'll have iron in our BFC, and we might deny their iron).
Red is their city, Blue is where we want to settle.
If we do settle, we'll have to chop trees for library and hopefully religious buildings if we can, and we'll have a semi-remote city with iron. So I think it'll be best to settle there and fight the Mongols culturally until we can get Pikes. And one last thing which I'm not sure about, should I gift the Mongols Monotheism, or trade for 20g? Gifting will delay their attack, but 20g are valuable since we are draining our coffers.
nody
Emperor
I thought it was onedreamer's turn?
EDIT: My mistake. Misread Jusos2108 that he said he founded the city.
EDIT: My mistake. Misread Jusos2108 that he said he founded the city.
BurnEmDown
Emperor
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I've got 2 more turns left, and will play them tomorrow morning.
Danger Bird
gravity's angel
Yes, found the iron city north of the Mongols.
RE: Argos.
Why is razing it out of the question? Because German Artaxata's culture might interfere with founding a city 1 tile north?
Also a concern is the Turkish spawn. The Mongols were further west than we thought. Maybe it is more accurate to say that we started further east than we would expect for Russia. Argos is on the 'Black Sea': could it possibly be in the Turkish flip zone?
RE: Argos.
Why is razing it out of the question? Because German Artaxata's culture might interfere with founding a city 1 tile north?
Also a concern is the Turkish spawn. The Mongols were further west than we thought. Maybe it is more accurate to say that we started further east than we would expect for Russia. Argos is on the 'Black Sea': could it possibly be in the Turkish flip zone?
BurnEmDown
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I don't think so, the area around Hattusas is too resource heavy to not be their spawn zone.
Starting to play now, I should be done in several minutes.
Edit: Also, rebuilding Argos 1N would mean that it will get the pigs, however it might be best to settle a city a little to the north (in the would-be Poland area) which will get the pigs and the wheat from south of St. Petersburg.
Starting to play now, I should be done in several minutes.
Edit: Also, rebuilding Argos 1N would mean that it will get the pigs, however it might be best to settle a city a little to the north (in the would-be Poland area) which will get the pigs and the wheat from south of St. Petersburg.
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