World History Mod development thread

[Krug]

WOOT NEW YEAR!

ISRAELI EMPIRE
LEADER:King David (Though I prefer King Saul or Solomon)
PERSONALITY:Imperialistic, Aggressive, Cultured
UU:Macabee,(Replaces Swordsman) , Normal Swordsman Abilities, Starts with Flanking I, Flank against Archer/Longbowman
UB:Kotel, (Replaces Walls), -25% War Warriness, Normal Wall Abilities,
UPower of Solomon, All Cities start with a free Kotel.
UHV1:Control at least 3 Holy Cities by 610 A.D.(3 Religions founded in one city counds as three religions too)
UHV2:Be the only Country in the World with your State Religion by 1947 A.D.
UHV3: Control the Sinai Peninsula, and go to war with every one of your neighbors by 1973 A.D.
START:~2000 B.C.
END:740 B.C. (Kingdom) None (Current State)
PREFERRED CIVICS:Universal Sufferage, Enviornmentalism, Free Speech, Organized Religion, Emancipation
PREFERRED RELGION:Judaism
PREFFERED IDEOLOGY(IES):Nationalism
RATING:3/3/1 [2]

 

[kevinman4404]

@Krug, just a note, that is the old kingdom, the modern civ will be seperate, and will rely on a UN decision. So just make sure that there are no modern traits, etc. Because of that I only used the first UHV, though it operates really heavily on the assumption that it makes it 1300 years longer than it's supposed to... that's going to be a hard goal.

I added the modern Israel, stuck in a UB, and used the third UHV you provided. The second seems just a little cynical. I don't think they mind being one of the few highly Jewish regions, and certainly the only Jewish state, but I don't think they go to great lengths to remove Judaism from other places.

And don't worry about it, but make sure to include the artstyle and unit/tech-set categories. It's my fault caz I edited them in there not long before you posted, but I don't know what exactly Israel should fall under in those categories. So please check them out and let me know what you think for old Israel.

Anyways the civ stuff is now updated, though I still have to fill in a lot of UUs and UBs from other civs. This should be done tonight.


I have done huge updates to the UU/UB/base units thread in the CivJunction forum. Check it out!

And I finally got ahold of RFC Europe (even though it's been available, I think), and it has done exactly what I was trying to do. What's more and better, they even simplified the code and brought settler maps to python.

And I'd might as well note that there are now not just settler maps, but war maps. Now, settler maps are where a civ wants to settle, and war maps are where a civ will fight over (once it's already settled). Do not volunteer to do the maps for any civs already in RFC Europe as of the end of December, as they already have visual representations of the maps, at least for inside Europe/Middle East. So these ones won't be a problem/

With this said, the project has a very good chance of success without intervention, and will likely be finished sooner

Happy new year

 

[Krug]

Neither UHV 2 or 3 struck me as Cynical.However, I see your point about 2, but with three, I just wanted to represent the Yom Kippur/6 Day-War, which need to be in there somehow, and really, I couldn't think of better way, until now...

Add this for Modern Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and Iraq:

UHV1: Declare War on Israel at (Not Before or After) 1967 A.D. and end up Victorious.

Change the UHV1 for Israel to this:
UHV1: Survive the Arab onslaught in 1967, and Emerge Victorious

You see, I don't want Israel to be that Cynical, I am Israeli after all...
-------------------------------------
JUDAH/ISRAEL
Leader: David (If you allow two Leaders, we should really have Solomon or Saul as well)
Personality:Imperialistic, Aggressive, Cultured, Charismatic
UU1: Macabee
UB1: Kotel
UP1: Power of Solomon (all cities start with a free Kotel)
UHV1: Control 2 Holy Cities by 300 B.C. (Screwed up earlier, it should be two, (Canannism (Worship of Baal) and Judaism))
UHV2: Conquer and/or Vassalize the Phonecians (Tyre), and the Philistine Lands by 300 B.C.
UHV3:Sucessfully conquer the Assyrians and Babylonians when and after they invade.(740 B.C.) (I know its supposed to be hard to make up for how easy 1 and 2 should be )
START: ~2000 B.C.
END: 740 B.C.
Preferred Civics: Hereditary Rule, Merchantalism, Vassalage, Organized Religion, Slavery
Preferred Religion: Judaism
Preferred Ideology(ies): Imperialism
Artsytle: Middle Eastern
Tech/Unit-set: (What?)
Rating: 3/3/1 [2]
------------------------------------------
ISRAEL (Modern)
Leader:Ben Gurion
Personality: Protective, Nationalistic, Industrious, Financial, Revolutionary
UU1: Tzahal, (Replaces Infantry), +50% Against Gunpowder Units (Rather than 25%)
UB1: Betcholim
UP1: Zionism, all cities gain a boost and Tile Defense (Between 5% and 15%)
UHV1: Survive the Arab onslaught in 1967, and Emerge Victorious
UHV2: Control Sinai Peninsula and defeat/stop Palestinian rebellions
UHV3: Conquer or Vassalize Lebenon by 1982 A.D.
START: 1941 A.D.
END:N/A
Preferred Civics: Universal Sufferage, Enviornmentalism, Free Speech, Organized Religion, Emancipation
Preferred Religion: Judaism
Preferred Ideology(ies): Nationalism(Major), Capitalism (Minor)
Artsytle: Middle Eastern
Tech/Unit-set: (Again, What?)
Rating: 4/3/3 [3]

 

[kevinman4404]

@Krug: the third UHV is actually useful, I hope you don't mind me using it instead of survive the Arab onslaught, reason being that I can't say exactly when they'll go to war, just that it'll be extremely likely sometime not too long after Israel is made by the UN. (Edit: oh yeah, it was just the second I said was cynical, the third one, to me, is perfectly fine)

There are several different tech trees (well one really, but I still need to know which group it belongs to caz many techs only apply to certain civ groups) and several different unit sets. Natives go through a different unit tree, for example, than Europeans, and it is far more based on inter-tribal warfare, scouting and hunting, until natives are given guns, and then it gradually transitions into modern standard units. So I need to know which out of these groups it would belong to: "Basic European, Mediterannean, Romano-Greco, Norse(Scan.), Islamic, Eastern, Asian(China, Korea, Japan, etc.), Southeast Asian(Khmer etc.), Basic African, Mesoamerican, Eastern North American Native, Western North American Native, Plains Native, Tribal, Nomadic, Ancient Egyptian. An Eastern Europe/Russian artstyle may come, so please use this for all appropriate civs." This one has me stumped, I guess it would either be Mediterannean or Eastern, but I don't know if that represents Israel well enough.

And one more thing, I don't yet know for sure which religions are going to be included. To help me out, was Canaanism the state religion of any included civ?

Thanks for the good work so far, the UHVs for Israel are sounding good


And UUs and UBs are being continually updated with more stuff
And I forget what else I was going to say... I'll remember later

Kevin

 

[Krug]

@Krug: the third UHV is actually useful, I hope you don't mind me using it instead of survive the Arab onslaught, reason being that I can't say exactly when they'll go to war, just that it'll be extremely likely sometime not too long after Israel is made by the UN. (Edit: oh yeah, it was just the second I said was cynical, the third one, to me, is perfectly fine)

I don't mind, you can change the that UHV.

There are several different tech trees (well one really, but I still need to know which group it belongs to caz many techs only apply to certain civ groups) and several different unit sets. Natives go through a different unit tree, for example, than Europeans, and it is far more based on inter-tribal warfare, scouting and hunting, until natives are given guns, and then it gradually transitions into modern standard units. So I need to know which out of these groups it would belong to: "Basic European, Mediterannean, Romano-Greco, Norse(Scan.), Islamic, Eastern, Asian(China, Korea, Japan, etc.), Southeast Asian(Khmer etc.), Basic African, Mesoamerican, Eastern North American Native, Western North American Native, Plains Native, Tribal, Nomadic, Ancient Egyptian. An Eastern Europe/Russian artstyle may come, so please use this for all appropriate civs." This one has me stumped, I guess it would either be Mediterannean or Eastern, but I don't know if that represents Israel well enough.

I would say Medditeranian or Egyptian, as Egypt did invade (and I guess in a way influence) Israel at times.

And one more thing, I don't yet know for sure which religions are going to be included. To help me out, was Canaanism the state religion of any included civ?

Thanks for the good work so far, the UHVs for Israel are sounding good


And UUs and UBs are being continually updated with more stuff

Kevin

Cannanism is the State Religion of the Phonecians/Tyre, Sumeria, and possibly the Babylonians. Maybe Assyria too, but because it started its rise around the same time as King Jehu of Israel "Eradicated" Baal (He salughtered the Worshipers and turned Baal's main temple into a public toilet), I'm leaning more to no.

But definetly Phonecia and Sumeria.

 

[TheLastOne36]

PREFFERED IDEOLOGY(IES): See Grishnash's thread called "Idea Pit." Examples are communism and capitalism, but there are many more, and these are closely tied to civics. I do not know how these will work yet. It was suggested they act like corporations but I am also considering having them act like civics. Include as many as will be accurate.

hmm, what would Poland and other post-Communist countries be? We do not have the "expansionist" trait as the Russians have, we were just merely consumed into communism by Russia. Capitalism hasn't been here long enough to be considered our "ideology" even though it is the most preferred. I'm guessing for Poland Monarchy would be best? But perhaps you could make it change for different Era's? So our preffered is Monarchy during the 1500's but when we get to the 1900's we switch to Capitalism?

 

[Krug]

I have a list of Religions, (New ones are in Bold)

Catholicism
Protestantism
Orthodoxy
Arianism
Judaism
Sunni Islam
Shia Islam
Bahaiism
Zoroastrianism
Jainism
Taoism
Buddhism
Therevada Buddhism
Mahayana Buddhism
Hinduism
Sikhism
Confucianism
Shintoism
Unitarian Universalism
Cao Dai
Native American Spirituality
Paganism
Pantheon Worship (Hellenism)
Leader Worship
Meso-American Spirituality (Toltec Faith)
Cannanism
Egyptian Cultism

 

[TheLastOne36]

Just call Meso-American 'Toltec'. Much Simpler.

 

[Krug]

Just call Meso-American 'Toltec'. Much Simpler.

Yeah, Toltec Spirituality works as well.


IRAN
Leader:Mahmūd Ahmadinejād
Personality:Aggressive,Imperiaistic
UU1:IRGC (Replaces Marine),+50% attack vs. Machine Gun, +50% attack vs. Artillery, Starts with Combat I and II
UB1:Refinery (Replaces Factory) +2 (Even without Coal and Oil), can turn two Citizens into Engineers, One into Scientist.
UP1ower of OPEC, Cities that are connected to Oil automatically turn one Citizen into a Merchant. (Shares with Saudi Arabia)
UHV1:Conquer Iraq by 1988 A.D.
UHV2:Conquer Kurdistan by 2000 A.D. (See Iran-PJAK conflict)
UHV3:Become Weathiest and Most Powerful Nation (Most Military Units) in the Middle East by 2008 A.D.
START:1925 A.D
END:N/A
Preferred Civicsolice State, Nationhood, Emancipation, Free Market, Organized Religion
Preferred Religion:Shi'a Islam
Preferred Ideology(ies):Fundementalism
Artsytle: Middle Eastern
Tech/Unit-set: Islamic
Rating: 3/3/4 [3]

 

[TheLastOne36]

Just because the current leader is Ahmdeinejad doesn't mean Iran's leader has to be. (It's suppose to be greatest leader, i don't think he is the greatest Iranian Leader).

 

[Krug]

Just because the current leader is Ahmdeinejad doesn't mean Iran's leader has to be. (It's suppose to be greatest leader, i don't think he is the greatest Iranian Leader).

By our standards he might not be the Greastest, but he is well known, in modern times. However I'm not too brushed up on Iranian Leaders (Besides Persia), so if have anything better.

 

[kevinman4404]

Here is a shortened list. Remember, the requirement for any religion is a minimum of 1 civ with that religion as a state religion. Please offer your opinions on any religion with a ? beside it. Anyways, hope the list is (though it is not final/done) to everybody's liking

Catholicism
Protestantism
Orthodoxy
Arianism?
Judaism
Sunni Islam
Shia Islam
Zoroastrianism
Jainism
Taoism
Therevada Buddhism
Mahayana Buddhism
Tibetan Buddhism
Hinduism
Sikhism?
Confucianism
Shintoism
Anamism (no holy city)
Paganism (no holy city)
Shamanism (no holy city)
African Trad./Diasporic (no holy city)
Pantheonism? (no holy city)(combine with paganism?)
Cannanism? (merge with Paganism?)
Toltec Faith?
Juche?

I don't know enough about Iran to make a call on that. However, it may be easiest just to do a leader that we have artwork for.

@Lastone36, I forget if I asked you or not, is the updated Venezuela how it should be?
~~~
Please comment on religions.

Next thing I need to work on will be civics. I find that this is a dependency for my civ list and for a lot of other thigns, so I really want to make this my next priority. I already have a lot of civics suggested, but I need to fill out the entire list.

@Grishnash: I'm sorry, I really can't find your border suggestion. Can you please repeat or direct me to it? I did a search in this thread, I'm guessing it's somewhere else.

Once I've read that suggestion, I will announce what I would like to do for an updated border system.

I will also soon be working on religious details.

Wintermod is almost done.

Kevin

 

[Krug]

Wasn't the Egyptian Faith two Civilizations? (Nubia and Egypt)

Unless, you just combined the Greek and Egyptian Traditions into Pantheonism.

 

[kevinman4404]

Oh, I forgot to mention, that if we include any religions like Hellenism, Egypytian, etc., that we would probably have to include all of them, and there are probably a lot of them. So I tentatively made a category called Pantheonism, which could possibly be merged under paganism... cannanism would likely go under this too but I am not sure...

either we could merge them into pantheonism or even more into paganism, or we could have cannanism, heliopolism (or whatever you call Egyptian faith), Toltec faith, Hellenism, Celtic religion, and all other pantheon religions. I'm curious to see which you guys prefer

 

[Krug]

While I'd rather stray from Paganism, and have many seprate Relgions, as it makes the game more historical, I think that with these kinds of religions other leaders should not have "We are upset that you have fallen under the sawy of a heathen religion", because back then, nations respected each other's gods.

 

[kevinman4404]

Alright, but do you think they should maybe be merged under Pantheonism? They were all very similar, even somewhat copying eachother (Roman, Greek, Celtic, as well as many civs in The Ancient Med. Mod). This would get rid of the heathen problem you describe. What is your opinion on this? Also, what is your opinion on the religions with a question mark?

OH and I forgot to say that any of those Isreali leaders are fine as long as we have the artwork for it.

 

[Grishnash]

African Trad./Diasporic<-??

Anyways, here's the link to the post with the boarder suggestion on it
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6875342&postcount=265

&#8220;Mr. Right's coming, but he's in Africa, and he's walking&#8221; - Oprah Winfrey

&#8220;When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said, 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land.&#8221; - Bishop Desmond Tutu

 

[TheLastOne36]

@Lastone36, I forget if I asked you or not, is the updated Venezuela how it should be?
~~~
Please comment on religions.

Next thing I need to work on will be civics. I find that this is a dependency for my civ list and for a lot of other thigns, so I really want to make this my next priority. I already have a lot of civics suggested, but I need to fill out the entire list.

I haven't checked Venezuela yet, i'll do so soon.

Religions are fine, no arguements with me. Pantheonism is great to, but what if you made it so that every civ who has Pantheonism as a religion still have the "You have adopted another religion " to make it more realistic (as in different types of Pantheon religions like Greco-Roman, Celtic, Viking, Egyptian etc).

I'll wait till you are organized with the civics before asking again then.

 

[kevinman4404]

@Lastone36- that depends on whether they actually disliked eachother having that different pantheonic religion. If so, though, I can possibly change it to negative, and at the moment 2 civs with pantheonism don't enjoy a relations bonus.

I am unsure of whether or not to include Nestorianism. Arianism is also up for discussion, along with the pantheonism/African trad./paganism/individual religions that have been mercilessly grouped/Juche/Sikhism/etc.

I have put all of GeneralSpecific's civics in the civjunction civics thread (I wonder if he's been around recently) and will add a lot more categories and civics in the next few days. Now is the time to start, at the very least, naming civics. We must know what civics are available, because to work on civs, we need to knwo all the preferred civics.

EDIT: on borders, I relooked at all suggestions; likely, the territory screen idea, like in EU3, is impossible for me to do (though it is obviously the coolest). I am leaning towards Grishnash's ideas, as they are almost exactly the same as my original idea for borders. But what about claimed territory with no city in it? I am thinking there should also be another way of claiming territory. There is already one suggestion for this. How did this happen in real life (empires taking land with no/limited population there)?

Kevin

Kevin

 

[TheLastOne36]

What about something like "Tribalism" or "Tribal Beliefs" for African Traditions? Also how about a couple different techs found Pantheonism? Therefore you won't have to rely on religion spread for that particular religion?