Worst Dictators Ever?

[NilesR]

Perhaps then we should nominate Karl Marx as worst person ever. It was his philosophy that inspired Lenin, which led to Stalin and Hitler......

 

[Kafka2]

Surely we must then conclude that Marx's father was even worse? After all, his bout of friskiness would have (you claim) not only caused Lenin, Stalin and Hitler, but also his son's turgid prose and really bad beard.

Admittedly he wasn't a dictator. Then again, neither was Marx. On that basis, I'd like to nominate Mr Postlethwaite- my old Physics teacher.

 

[gael]

Marxs philosophy died until lenin brought it up again with his own interpretation of it.
Marx was the complete opposite of dictatorship.

 

[akots]

Originally posted by NilesR
Perhaps then we should nominate Karl Marx as worst person ever. It was his philosophy that inspired Lenin, which led to Stalin and Hitler......

I don't think that Marx contributed to Lenin's henocide-paranoid ideas of mass murder and torture. Lenin somehow twisted everything and claimed that Marx is the person to blame. Indeed Marx is not so evil. He just wanted the people to live better at expense of some personal freedom. Lenin's intentions were the opposite. You give away your freedom for an opportunity to be poor and in constant fear for your life. And it was Lenin who started secret mass executions on a million-people scale claiming that this is the only way for the bright future.

This shows again that many people are just ignorant about the true ideas and historical events in Russia in the beginning of 20th century.

 

[NilesR]

Umm I do hope your comment

This shows again that many people are just ignorant about the true ideas and historical events in Russia in the beginning of 20th century

is not directed at me. The post about Lenin creating Hitler and Stalin was not mine to claim. I did however take the authors inference and went one step further with it.

My point in that post was. How can one lay blame for anothers actions on someone else?

Hitler was evil, Stalin was evil. They arose as responses to their enviroment and through pure fate. Laying the blame for them at solely Lenin's feet isn't entirely accurate.

I happen to be a History major, so I take an intrest in things archaic in nature a bit more than the average person. That being said I don't know all there is to know about early 20th century Russia, but I do know the basics.

 

[alejandro-magno]

Marx was the most imprtant sociologist from the 19th century and a complete failure as a politician. Don´t blame him for the USSR. I don´t know if it was been mentioned but what abou Videla, Galtieri Bignone and Viola, Argentine dictators from 1976 to 1983 (all part of the same military government, the PRN): killed 30,000, started the country´s only war in the 20th century, killing some more (though i don´t know war casualty figures), augmenting Argentine foreign debt from 8000 millions to 45000 millions, and de-industrialising the country, all while receiving US Aid. They should top the South American dictator list.

 

[akots]

Originally posted by NilesR
Umm I do hope your comment is not directed at me.

Certainly not. It probably goes to Western society in part. I've recently met a French scientist 38 years old with PhD degree who told me that they learned at school that Russia started WWII by capturing Poland!!!??? Can you believe this?

But to understand the things about 1917 revolution and Lenin, you have to go really very deep. Much deeper than in a textbook. I happened to be in high school and university in early 80s in Russia and WAS FORCED to read some Lenin's books and articles to survive. It is pure evil. If there is a Book of Satan, this is it. It's all in there, Hitler, Stalin and all the rest and many-many other weirdest things. Sometimes it is masked, sometimes it is on the surface.

 

[Stefan Haertel]

but to compare him to a Hitler or a Pol Pot or any of those names on that list is kind of insulting.

I don't know what the others thought when posting it, but if you read what I said about that later, you'd realize that the discussion if over.

 

[luiz]

Originally posted by akots
I'm inclined to believe that Vladimir Lenin somehow surprizingly escaped the attention. He was absolutely insane, was not elected, killed about 7 million people with more or less direct orders, and started the whole 20th century dictator mess. He was pure evil indeed. And he still rules the spirits of some people which is far worse. And the Mummy is lying there on the Red Square in Moscow still. It has to be buried or the world would turn upside down again.

Almost all condemn Stalin and Hitler. But both were direct consequence of Lenin's plot of worlds development. As well as minor others. The whole WWII was Lenin's dream. He did everything to set up the world in its weird shape by early 1920s. After this, he just went crazy and was confined to sort of powerless excile even by his revolutionary buddies. They wrote in letters to each others that the guy is insane and has to be kept in close quarters before he kills everyone. Another bad thing is that Lenin trashed all phylosophy and ethics and some common knowledge pretending to be intelligent and smart. Indeed he was a jerk capable of manipulating people's minds. Why? He had another big enemy of mankind on his side shaking his horned head in approval. And Lenin was probably the first to start massive religious cleansing in the world. No other ruler before him dared to destroy EVERY CHURCH AND TEMPLE and to kill every priest and monk. Stalin just followed that and did not invent much new. IMHO, the ideas and intentions of Lenin did more harm than anything else in world history.

Yes, I should have mentioned Lenin.

This Molotov quote always made me think:
"Compared to Lenin, Stalin was a lamb".

 

[luiz]

Originally posted by gael
Marxs philosophy died until lenin brought it up again with his own interpretation of it.
Marx was the complete opposite of dictatorship.

What about the Dictatorship of the proletariate, a concept invented and supported by Marx?

Marx was a full supporter of a dictatorship, or at least a temporary one.

He was by no means a pacifist, this is something that is oftenly forgotten.

 

[Mîtiu Ioan]

Originally posted by Amenhotep7
3.Mao & Kim Jong-Il (they're tied)

I'm not so sure about their "link" - but Kim is also a big "candidate" in my opinion ... recent declasified documents suggest that he is 90% responsible for the Corean War in 1950 ... and for the "cold period" that followed.

Regards

 

[Kafka2]

That's Kim Il-Sung, isn't it?

 

[Androrc]

Originally posted by akots
I'm inclined to believe that Vladimir Lenin somehow surprizingly escaped the attention..., was not elected,

So what? The burgeouis democracy doesn't work either. It is not who votes, but who counts the votes. Also, Lenin had support from the population and a 'proof' of that is that the people did not let Yeltsin violate his tomb.

 

[pstanhag]

careful you will get warned for trolling if you have any opinions like that ;(

 

[Anubisdk2]

My list in no particular order.
BTW, if you are going to judge these men (and could be women too), you need something more than just an opinion.

Adolf Hitler - I think it is obvious how inhumane Hitler was. He single handedly brought the world into war (in Europe) and was the mastermind behind the deaths of millions of people

Joseph Stalin - When this guy is quoted "One death is a tragedy, one million is a statistic", where do you think this guy lies. He killed (rough estimates) 20 Million Russians during his purges....20 million!!!

Benito Mussoloni - This guy was Robin to Batman, and someone who did not read the people of Italy very well. Yes, he was a dictator, but not the most evil of them all.

Mao Zedong - Completely unified China under one ruler. One cannot take that away from him. He was able to unify all the local rulers and take charge of China. He was wrong to push his plans upon China, but what did he care? Not like he was ever starving.

Fidel Castro - If only we would have let him play baseball. I really want to go to Cuba, I wish he would just die. He brought about the end of Batista's corrupt gov't in Cuba that favored U.S. and his loyal men. But the Cuban missle crisis takes anything good away from him. Also, not like he care about his starving people either.

Kim Jong-Il - This guy is a moron. Who will stop him first, us or the Chinese?

Marshall Joseph Tito - This man, if anything helped stop bloodshed in former Yugoslavia than contributed to it. It was after his death in 1980 and the fall of the former Soviet Union (1989) that Yugoslavia fell apart and the bloodshed continued. No one is perfect, but a "evil" dictator...no way.

Slobodan Milosevic - I do NOT agree with what this man did, but his parent's generation was slaughtered by the Croats that were collaborating with the Nazis during WWII. He should pay for what he did. Any type of ethinic cleansing is evil.

General Augusto Pinochet - Another former dictator on trial. Pinochet helped his country modernize and become more free. I do not agree with his methods (the ends do not ALWAYS justify the means), but he should pay for what he did. It doesnt make it right.

Idi Amin - ruthless Ugandian dictator that did a LOT of stupid things. But unfortunately, we can blame the mess that the Europeans have left in Africa for some one like him to come to power.

Ho Chi Minh - Very nationalistic man who wanted to unify Vietnam. He was communist 2nd, nationalist first. The US misread him before we let the French back into Indo-China. He read a copy (or nearly a copy) of the Declaration of Independence in 1948 I believem, but we were too bush trying to build up France in our fight against communism to care. I dont think he should be on this list.

Saddam Hussein - moron....who goes against the power of the U.S. army.

Muammar Qaddafi - Finally realizes after he was possibly injured and family members were killed that he shouldnt sponsor terrorism. Better late than never.

Juan Peron - Argentine Dictator...dont consider him evil. Some people loved him, some didnt.

Pol Pot - This guy was ruthless. The Khmer Rouge was a sad time in Cambodia. He died in 1988, evading prosecution for the deaths of as many as 2 million of his countrymen.

Ayatollah Khomeini - I dont consider the Iran dictators actually horrible, but I do not like the selling of weapons to unstable countries. But, they consider the U.S. selling to Israel weapons crazy too....go figure. But they do not know what Jews have been through.

Ferdinand Marcos - He doesnt deserve to be on this list. Philipino dictator is a country that is a complete mess.

General Suharto - Indonesian General, this country is known for its ruthlessness and he fits right in. Didnt get the press coverage.

Fransisco Franco - I realize he was ruthless, but because of the reforms he eventually put into place, Spain was able to democratize.

For the idiot that put Bush on this list. I dont care if you like him or not, but he is no dictator.

There are others that I could have put on here: Lenin, Wilhelm II, Nicolae Ceausescu, Deng Xioapeng, and others. Not all dictators are evil.

Dictators can be the best rulers, even better than a fuction democracy. Because people will bend over backwards for a leader they love, believe in, respect, admire, etc..... The problem is that you never know who is going to be the heir AND/OR there is NO CEILING to their power and therefore they can turn evil very quickly with nothing to stop them (except for the military)

 

[Stefan Haertel]

For the idiot that put Bush on this list

You may have your opinion, but I will not let myself be insulted. You can be glad that I don't report to the moderator... YET.

 

[Amenhotep7]

I'm not so sure about their "link"

No, I mean I can't decide between them.

So what? The burgeouis democracy doesn't work either. It is not who votes, but who counts the votes. Also, Lenin had support from the population and a 'proof' of that is that the people did not let Yeltsin violate his tomb.

Democracy has proven itself from the year the Americans won the revolution. It's constitution has lasted the longest, and the people are guaranteed rights. Whereas in communist countries:

1) Soviet Union
-Repressed religion
-people starved
-only party members could vote, the people had no say whatsoever, and they're all about "the people".
-no ability to say what they wanted to say

2)China
-cultural revolution killed off thousads, left many more lives ruined
-Mao guilty of genocide...Perhaps Jiang was, but it wasn't driven by madness, just accidental
-current leader uses "internet spies" to track down and blacklist political dissidents
-people have no freedom to say what they want to say
-child labor (I think so...Maybe not. )
-current leader executes thousands per year
-the current communist system is failing. Almost every small town and village has held elections for local leaders, and the people begin to see the advantages of such a system
-the current system is also failing as the party begins to take more criticism (sp?)
-Had to kill THOUSANDS of political dissenters with military in Tiananmen (sp?) Square

3) North Korea
-not even defined internationally as a communist state. It's a dictatorship
- Kim Sung-Il passed power to his son Kim Jong-Il, thus creating a monarchy
-takes aid in food and money from US and then goes around and tells it's students to call President Bush "Hitler" and Americans "Nazis".
-Develops nuclear weapons instead of building an infrastructure. Just look at this pic: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights2_dmsp_big.jpg Look at NK. Almost NO lightsl.
-People are starving
-Experiments on children

That's just a sample. Any questions?

That's Kim Il-Sung, isn't it?

Kim Il-Sung was Kim Jong-Il's father. Kim Il-Sung died, and passed power to his son, the current ruler, Kim Jong-Il, thus turning a communist system into a hereditary monarchy.

 

[Xi 12]

Do they have to modern? If so, I say stalin. If not, I say Gheghis Khan.

 

[Amenhotep7]

No, they can be dictators from all eras.

 

[Anubisdk2]

Originally posted by Stefan Haertel


You may have your opinion, but I will not let myself be insulted. You can be glad that I don't report to the moderator... YET.

Ok, please give me a break. You sound like you are running to your mommy.

Let me clarify a little better. Whomever put Bush on this list is insulting my and everyone else's intelligence. If you don't like Bush, great, but he is NO dictator. For all you Democrats out there, the President that came the closest to becoming a Dictator in the U.S. was FDR.

Run and tell that to the moderator.