Worst Leaders of 2012 - Originals

[Thalassicus]

Which leaders should I focus on improving?

Set aside your overall preferences like war or peace, tall or wide. Vote for a leader like Ramhkamhaeng if you think he is not fun for games allying with citystates, compared to other leaders with citystate bonuses.

Vote for as many as you want, then click here to vote for leaders from paid extras.

 

[jacktannery]

I voted for these 4:

Bismark - Germany. I get overexcited and amass a huge barbarian army at the start of the game then can't pay the upkeep but don't realise that I am running a c. -99% production modifier (I can't remember how it works) until its too late then rage-quit.
Suleiman - Ottomans. I get overexcited and amass a huge barbarian army at the start of the game then can't pay the upkeep but don't realise that I am running a c. -99% production modifier (I can't remember how it works) until its too late then rage-quit.
Catherine - Russia. Her krepost building sounds cool but is unfortunately on a building which I NEVER build in 90% of my cities. Even with the special russian bonus its still not built in non-military cities. Her +1 production on strategic resources bonus is a bit crap too, and I forget about it very fast.
Ramkhamhaeng - Siam. I just find the whole 'city-states' game boring and too easy. Even without trying, I find that whenever I am winning (in terms of gold/culture/religion/resources/whatever) I accidentally complete 90% of city state quests and get allied with them all anyway. In every game. So playing a specific way to get city state allies is a waste of time for me. And Siam's bonus then ends up being too passive and dull to play.

*Please note I don't find the above leaders fun so have not played them in GEM in a long time, or perhaps even ever. I did play them in VEM though.

 

[mystikx21]

Bismark needs a bit of change to swap around some UAs with others. I'd prefer a science/engineering/philosophy feel to the Germans in the UA, along with a couple decent UUs (Panzer is fine).

Ditto Songhai swapping around UAs or amending what it has. 2x embarked should probably go on Danes. Camp gold would need nerfed actually to 2x.

America feels very weak with no real later game boosts (extra food helps later and earlier, but is limited by happiness). Several suggestions in the leaders thread sound interesting and worth trying out. I'd be fine getting rid of the minutemen and have no UUs if the UA or UB is good enough.

France's UA needs extended out, and possibly the Foreign Legion replaced too (they're basically the Night's Watch in Game of Thrones, rather than anything important and good...) or the musketeer replaced (which is Hollywood but is about the right time of military dominance in Europe).

China Paper Maker should get a boost (extra science?) Otherwise, China seems fine.

 

[SlothACID]

I voted for Greece only.

Whenever I play as Greece, my unique units obsolete when Renaissance kicks around and then because of espionage, my UA pretty much obsoletes. To buff Greece slightly, I would replace the Companion Cavalry with a UB that has some sort of lasting effect that helps with making CS allies.

Perhaps something to represent the Olympic Games? A building that gets + / or some other yield for each CS friend / ally. This would present an active bonus that benefits the AI and the player. This would encourage players to get more CS allies, and would promote both wide/tall and peaceful/conquest. A unique National Wonder maybe, since a flat boost on buildings favors wide empires.

 

[Kurobane]

Augustus - Rome - Rome is in need of some work. Unless playing on Marathon, you don't have much time to use the unique units. The road making ability on the Roman Legion is cool. I would like to see it slightly buffed maybe making the roads they build free or providing some benefit over worker made roads.

Bismark - Germany- The Mass Barbarian mechanic is cool but would probably fit with the theme of another civilization better like the Huns. I would like to see Germany into more of a scientific military civilization with better Unique Units.

Catherine - Russia - In Regular Civ5, Russia's UA is good due to being able to spam swordsman early on since you get double strategic resources. In Gem due to having vanguard units, early swordsman spam isn't really needed. So it feels like a waste until later on in the game when longswords come into play and the late game resources like uranium come into play. The +1 Production on strategic resources is also lackluster. I would rather take that and add it to the Krepost so that it would be worth making in all cities.

Washington - America - The Pioneer Walls were a good addition but overall America seems rather weak late game.

Napoleon - France - Foreign Legion should get its special promotions added to the Musketeer and replaced with a Unique Building.

 

[Thalassicus]

@Kurobane
Welcome to the forums!

That is a VERY good idea about moving the strategic production bonus to the Krepost. I'm going to do it, thank you!

 

[mitsho]

Hmm, interesting idea. I like the double quantity in that it also gives you money, when you sell it. But there's a good point that we don't really need it in GEM and it doesn't help us that much. But Catherine (due to the poll) doesn't seem to need too much of a change. So would you just switch the border expansion and the production bonus? Border to the UA and Production to the Krepost? Or keep the Krepost as experience + border expansion + production on strategic ressources? Seems powerful in that case.

Elsewhise, I agree in broad strokes with all in here, but don't want to say too much, interesting poll

 

[Babri]

Augustus - Rome - Rome is in need of some work. Unless playing on Marathon, you don't have much time to use the unique units. The road making ability on the Roman Legion is cool. I would like to see it slightly buffed maybe making the roads they build free or providing some benefit over worker made roads.

Not sure why so much dislike for Romans by most players. I think they are pretty decent, their UA is quite good once you have conquered huge lands earlier on. Maybe add cheaper building maintenance as well to their UA. Regarding UUs getting obsolete to quickly, ballista could be replaced with forums or something similar. It actually makes little sense that they are used to take cities which is quite inaccurate historically. Infact they should be worse against cities in reality but far better against troops.

Bismark - Germany- The Mass Barbarian mechanic is cool but would probably fit with the theme of another civilization better like the Huns. I would like to see Germany into more of a scientific military civilization with better Unique Units.

Completely agreed. Slight strength bonus (reflecting disciplined Prussian army), tech boost to military techs & higher production in cities would be a nice UA. Landskenecht could be replaced for another UU or UB or their stats/abilities changed. Cheaper pikes don't make much sense in this mod, we already have vanguard units for cannon fodder purpose. A pike with melee bonus, higher strength, slightly cheaper cost but higher maintenace would make most sense for Landskenechets.

Catherine - Russia - In Regular Civ5, Russia's UA is good due to being able to spam swordsman early on since you get double strategic resources. In Gem due to having vanguard units, early swordsman spam isn't really needed. So it feels like a waste until later on in the game when longswords come into play and the late game resources like uranium come into play. The +1 Production on strategic resources is also lackluster. I would rather take that and add it to the Krepost so that it would be worth making in all cities.

I like the idea about the krepost. BTW why not add no HP gained by enemy from pillaging Russians. That would be similar to Carthage mountain cross ability, a bit flavourful & could help Russians a little in defensive wars although that is not the main part of the UA.

Washington - America - The Pioneer Walls were a good addition but overall America seems rather weak late game.

Late game America could be represented through UA. I think UU/UB are great as it is. Cheaper aircraft maintenance + less damage taken by air units or something could be feasible.

Napoleon - France - Foreign Legion should get its special promotions added to the Musketeer and replaced with a Unique Building.

I always found France to be quite boring. Their UA sucks (culture/city per turn), it is really boring & generic just like Ethopia UA. If it is changed to something else, I would be happy.