Worst review ever for PTW?

Oh, well, okay. I don't use the firewall when I try to play PTW. I have a cable modem, so does my brother. We try to play, we get crummy lag. Forget about adding another player, the game has too much lag to be taken seriously as MP.
 
From what I've heard, there's no chance thhat I could ever play a multiplayer game in PTW with my crummy 56k modem, seeing as pings for even broadband tend to be really high.
 
True nmcul. You can enjoy PBEM and Hotseat, the modes that Infrogrames feel "there isn't demand for"...

Welcome to CFC, btw.
 
Hotseat is fun when you have friends over with not enough computers. LAND games are the best. Its true with Civ II which I can play hotseat sometimes. I don't have PTW yet.
 
On the lag:
I'm no programmer but I consider PTW performance way below standard. I play on a LAN and it still lags. Good computers, tiny LAN so when we play PTW it is the only app that's running. Still it lags and that's not the way it should be. I run WarCraftIII on this LAN where I let the server play 6 AI's and it runs smoother than PTW. As said I'm no programming expert but the fact that a 3d game as WC3 which has fairly high system demands runs faster than PTW's 2D amazes me too.

On the firewalls:
Off course you don't want a game to poke holes in your firewall without a warning, but a little bit more support would have been extremely welcome. What about an application that has to be run separately from the install and after some sound warnings 'pokes some holes' in the firewall for those people who are not so well educated in the comps tech department.

The European patch
Releasing the European versions without the proper 1.14 patch shows infogrames/firaxis don't respect their customers IMO. It kinda leaves the impression they wanted it out before the holiday season.

Was it all worth it?
Mixed feelings for me. Single player improvements are nice. But €30 for the new races and the swordsman upgrades seems a bit steep to me. Multiplayer was the main reason to buy PTW and I feel that I bought a beta version when it comes to that. I expected MP to be in civ3 in the first place and IMO 3do did a much better job in HeroesIV where they patched MP for free.
 
Originally posted by ProPain
On the lag:
The European patch
Releasing the European versions without the proper 1.14 patch shows infogrames/firaxis don't respect their customers IMO. It kinda leaves the impression they wanted it out before the holiday season.

I agree with you on this on both of your major points.

The way the Euro Patch situation happened shouldn't have. The way I hear it, Firaxis was never told that the European version was released with a different copy protection scheme.

I'm fairly sure that Infogrames rushed this title out to cash in on the X-Mas buying season. It's a shame as they won't suffer for it and Firaxis will take the reputation hit.
 
Originally posted by warpstorm


I'm fairly sure that Infogrames rushed this title out to cash in on the X-Mas buying season. It's a shame as they won't suffer for it and Firaxis will take the reputation hit.

That's what happens when you sign an MPP and your partner violates an ROP :)
 
Civ3, one of the best RTS ever, goes multiplayer - BUT: publishing strategy includes buggy code, high price, rushed shipment and disappointing features

I fear I have to agree with Thomes from the gamers staff. Okay, Civ3 is one of the finest strategy titels ever, but on the one hand I was badly disappointed by the game itself being shipped w.o. multiplyer support, and on the other hand the expansion pack's code mess is really one of the worst to be seen in recent times.

Have a look at other publishers - even nearly run down 3DO offers multi player support for their fantasy gaming anthology free of charge via the internet. though I have to admit their coding was not the best either, but the reason is apparent when you considet the companies' recent history.

Not so firaxis, this is infogrames publishing for Europe. You get a standard add on package which is virtually unplayable without a huge patch, a bad case of would-be-documentation and a few goodies fans already got from gamer's pages on the net long before the package was released.

European customers (depending on their store) in many cases payed even more than the US community and were rewarded by ... right! the same mess :o(.

There was nearly a positive twist in the German publishing strategy, since the add on contains both an English version (due to the American original sold before the German version was out) and a German one. Pity that the English was not compatible with the American patches and the whole European support was way behind the American - which was not the fastest ever either, considering that only in 1.14 stability started to find her first precious foothold.

Nevertheless, multiplaying Civ3 IS addictive, but price and troubles are WAY too high. But who cares - me and most of my friends bought it never the less, since there is no real alternative if you work long enough along the gaming biz and do not want to make the developer's pay for the publishers faults ... *sigh*
 
Originally posted by ProPain
As said I'm no programming expert but the fact that a 3d game as WC3 which has fairly high system demands runs faster than PTW's 2D amazes me too.
Graphics aren't sent over the net/LAN so whether it's 2D or 3D really doesn't have any influence on the lag. I can't run Warcraft 3 on my computer because I only have 128 mb ram (well I can but then it is very slow), but I have no problems running the original Civ3 or PtW. So If WC3 runs so perfectly on your computer, I guess I should be b**ching to Blizzard right now, shouldn't I ??

On the firewalls:
Off course you don't want a game to poke holes in your firewall without a warning, but a little bit more support would have been extremely welcome.
Do you want a software developing company to start helping you setting up hardware and other people's software on your computer?? I think that's what PC support companies are for, not game developers. The sheer number of Hardware and software firewalls makes this task impossible. It's your equipment and your responsibility - any help the game developer provides is really an added bonus IMO. :)

What about an application that has to be run separately from the install and after some sound warnings 'pokes some holes' in the firewall for those people who are not so well educated in the comps tech department.
If such an application existed, it would be a great tool for hackers - I'm sure Firaxis and Infogrames don't want to go down in history as the companies that provided the world with hacking tools bundled with a game.

Releasing the European versions without the proper 1.14 patch shows infogrames/firaxis don't respect their customers IMO. It kinda leaves the impression they wanted it out before the holiday season.
No doubt they did - Infogrames have to make money too, and christmas is the best season of them all. But AFAIK they haven't forced anyone to buy the game yet, so I don't think it really makes them evil persons. Slightly scrupulous perhaps, but not really evil. :)

Multiplayer was the main reason to buy PTW and I feel that I bought a beta version when it comes to that.
You may consider it a beta if you wish, but it is at least a beta that allows you to upgrade to the full version at no extra expense.
 
Originally posted by warpstorm
The way the Euro Patch situation happened shouldn't have. The way I hear it, Firaxis was never told that the European version was released with a different copy protection scheme.

Well, they should just admit that they're wrong and that they'll fix it ASAP.
 
Originally posted by Isak
Graphics aren't sent over the net/LAN so whether it's 2D or 3D really doesn't have any influence on the lag. I can't run Warcraft 3 on my computer because I only have 128 mb ram (well I can but then it is very slow), but I have no problems running the original Civ3 or PtW. So If WC3 runs so perfectly on your computer, I guess I should be b**ching to Blizzard right now, shouldn't I ??
Graphics not over LAN sounds logical but then I still don't understand why there's lag in movement. Feel free to express your dissatisfaction to Blizzard but don't suggest I'm *****ing. I've just written down how I feel about things in a very reasonable tone afaik. As said, I don't feel PTW is a total waste of (my) money, but I do have mixed feelings about it.
Originally posted by Isak

Do you want a software developing company to start helping you setting up hardware and other people's software on your computer?? I think that's what PC support companies are for, not game developers. The sheer number of Hardware and software firewalls makes this task impossible. It's your equipment and your responsibility - any help the game developer provides is really an added bonus IMO. :)

Isn't that what they do all the time? They write programs that run on your system, supporting different graphic and sound cards for example. But as I said I'm no programming expert so maybe I misperceive this.

Originally posted by Isak

No doubt they did - Infogrames have to make money too, and christmas is the best season of them all. But AFAIK they haven't forced anyone to buy the game yet, so I don't think it really makes them evil persons. Slightly scrupulous perhaps, but not really evil. :)
Never said they were evil I said they were/are disrespectfull. The fact that they don't force you to buy it doesn't change the fact they started selling a game that doesn't work properly from the box. I have my own business and I'm pretty sure my customers would never return when I tried to pull this off.

Originally posted by Isak

You may consider it a beta if you wish, but it is at least a beta that allows you to upgrade to the full version at no extra expense.
Not really getting your point here, I payed €30 for that Beta.
 
Look at this from the Firaxis point of view. We are asking for a bunch of enhancements and fixes, and I believe Firaxis is acting in good faith to prioritize how they can do the most good. But reviews like this are not going to help them make money, which they will need to do the enhancements and fixes.


You might say, "OK, they blew it, let them go out of business." I don't think they will go out of business entirely, but they could get out of the Civilization business. And I want Civilization to continue in some form. It's a special game. I wish Firaxis success in this.
 
Originally posted by ProPain
Graphics not over LAN sounds logical but then I still don't understand why there's lag in movement. Feel free to express your dissatisfaction to Blizzard but don't suggest I'm *****ing.
Sorry, didn't mean to imply you were b**ching. I was just referring to how I would probably react.

Firaxis have already said there are still issues they want to fix in an upcoming patch, but from how I understand the game mechanics, there is no way we will ever get instant movement, (for example), in MP games. Simply because, every time you click to move a unit, before that unit gets moved the game has to check that no other player has moved into the same square simultaneously. This involves sending data back and forth and also requires processing on other computers than your own, so if the players on those other computers are doing other things, which is taking up their processor power, your machine's request to move the unit will get queued and delayed until the processor(s) is free again.

Isn't that what they do all the time? They write programs that run on your system, supporting different graphic and sound cards for example. But as I said I'm no programming expert so maybe I misperceive this.
They write programs for hardware and software standards, but since many manufacturers of hardware usually deviate slightly from these standards, even that is an arduous task. This still isn't really the same as helping you configure hardware device XXX or utility YYY to leave the game alone and let you play. Actually, the only reasonable place to take your complaint if your hardware or software doesn't work with Civ3 or PtW is the manufacturer/developer of that hardware/software. They'll probably not give a toss, and game companies realize this, so they try to fix games up to be compatible with as much hardware and software as possible, but that is really just to keep the customer satisfied, not something we can demand from them, IMHO.

Never said they were evil I said they were/are disrespectfull. The fact that they don't force you to buy it doesn't change the fact they started selling a game that doesn't work properly from the box. I have my own business and I'm pretty sure my customers would never return when I tried to pull this off.
If you were the only one supplying what they wanted, I'm sure they would return, even if you beat them with a stick every time :)

But seriously, I second Sumthinelse's views on this - Firaxis (and Infogrames for that matter) need money to exist. And if publishers decide that a game is ready to be released, there's not much the developers can do about it, short of working for free which I'm sure not many of us would want to do in the long run. Not those of us with families to support anyway.

Warning hair-splitting philosophical question below
... and when is a computer game finished anyway???

Don't say "when it works" cause it worked for me from day one :)

And don't say "when it works for everybody either", cause in that case, no game has ever been finished to this day. :scan:
 
Besides the new civs & the editor, I do not think it's worth the money. The WWII, Dinos, and Japanese units are cool, but they should have made a mod called WWII, Dinos, and Japan so you can easily use those added units, they just pieced that together.
 
Also, the multiplayer is a joke, how can they call that multiplayer, it doesn't even work!?!?!
 
Originally posted by shramj
Also, the multiplayer is a joke, how can they call that multiplayer, it doesn't even work!?!?!
Not trying to be smug, but it works for me :)
 
My two cents (which doesn't follow the discussions of LAN problems people are having):

Software in general has been sliding down hill with regards to quality for years. Remember Civ2? The quality was much higher, and things just seemed to work out of the box. If a bug existed, it wasn't prevailent in every single damn copy. Only a smaller subset of users found it. But now adays software is going out where a majority of customers are seeing the bug! Its horrid!

I know because I work at a software company and entire sections of the code simply do not work because they were at best spot checked for quality. that is, the software was added, the feature checked, but nothing else. Not how it affected other features, no regression testing to make sure all the features worked as designed.

To this day I see features where the testers added a piece, and tested, added a piece and tested, and added a final piece, tested one more time, and then when a customer got their hands on it, the entire feature broke because they didn't go back and retest from point one.

Tools exist for sophisticated and automated regression testing. That is, have a script robot open windows, perform tasks and do things that are repetitive and leave more imaginative tasks to humans.

The point of this rant is that no one is making investments for working smarter when it comes to testing software. Software becomes more complex with more features but no one wants to buy more Quality assurance personnel. They could solve this by reworking their departments but often enough they aren't imaginative enough.

I hope this review is the beginning of many. I hope it raises the scrutiny of all companies and I hope reviews are lowered due to quality concerns. Blizzard software has the best record of quality so far but they are having a hell of a time keeping gameplay balanced. Diablo 2 for mid to high end players was a nightmare because they tried to keep people happy by not having one killer character class but so many items were just unimpressive junk, one class was pretty weak by the last patch, and several variants of other classes were simply too weak to remain competitive with other classes.

Quality is not always as big a concern as people claim because its easy to buy software, find out it sucks and have a hard time returning it. Even if you do return it, the store where you bought it, not the publisher, eats the cost. The store often gives you store credit for opened boxes because of the issues with piracy that buying and returning software causes. You can almost never get cash back.

And for what its worth, if Civ2 WITHOUT expansion didn't have ALL the features that Civ3 WITH expansion does, it would be worth spending $30 on the software without MP. I resent having to buy PTW in order to get some new civs, units, a wonder, and a "fixed GUI" when I don't plan on using MP.
 
Originally posted by Shabbaman

Well, they should just admit that they're wrong and that they'll fix it ASAP.

They fixed it about 3 days after they found out that Infogrames released the European version.
 
Originally posted by shramj
Besides the new civs & the editor, I do not think it's worth the money. The WWII, Dinos, and Japanese units are cool, but they should have made a mod called WWII, Dinos, and Japan so you can easily use those added units, they just pieced that together.

Well you could try the TETurkhan scenarios that came with the disk and include all of them.
 
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