Jaguars are good in 10% of games, but then they are truly beautiful to use - easy to make, ad deadly in jungles.
Worst Unique Unit?
- Thread starter Bowsling
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TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
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I'd be delighted if you could demonstrate why you make such an outlandish claim.
He means that it doesn't make it good enough to be the unique racial super-unit that it should be - butI still reckon tht it is a good unit if used as a knight who never stops attacking - withdrawal at 15% is 3 in 20, or 1 in 6 and 2/3, which while it's not great is far from nothing.
TheMeInTeam
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Well jeez, it's also resource...how much do you want? Only a handful of UUs have superpowered abilities like keshiks/prats and vanilla cossacks/redcoats. Others are usually useful but not game-changing. Camel archer definitely falls in that range. In fact, the BIGGEST issue that comes with both knight UUs is that they are knight UUs - and that's frequently an awkward tech path.
Most UUs, while they are not godlike in power, have a strategy to which they van be employed which makes them incredible to behold, and the CA does not really - it's just a knight with bells on.
TheMeInTeam
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Barring the early anti-archer type units, what else qualifies as incredible to behold? Cossacks in bts? Redcoats vs anything but other rifles/muskets (aka a tech lead war)? Samurai? Gallic warriors? Panzers? Holkans against competent players or high level AIs? The bowman? I can go on if you like. Knights are the strongest base str unit in their era, so giving them survivability is a boon. Of course cataphracts are better, but that doesn't make CA's a bad unit. Flanking CAs can be quite nice as part of a stack, and if you're going the mass horse archer route then the withdraw guys are more palatable as survival strikers than stock knights.
It's not going to win awards for best UU ever, but the withdraw is a useful bonus and puts it ahead of frequently horrible UUs like the ballista elephant, bowman, and panzer.
blitzkrieg1980
Octobrist
That was already mentioned and, while true, you're probably not doing well if you don't have iron and horses yet. You shoulda REXed/conquered/traded for them.
6K Man
Bureaucrat
On the topic of the Panzer - give it Commando instead of the bonus vs armor... 
blitzkrieg1980
Octobrist
He's saying that Redcoats vs. anything up to rifles/muskets is a tech lead war.
Yes, but it also prevents your unit production from being stopped by an enemy sabotaging your improvements which is more of a concern since there's two of them and can be a real problem when going against an espionage happy human player in multi-player.
blitzkrieg1980
Octobrist
ah.. multi-player... no thanks. I'd rather be able to have all the victory conditions workable 
On the topic of the Panzer - give it Commando instead of the bonus vs armor...
Oh my Gods, it's actually a good idea. I was thinking a free Combat I in addition to the vs. armored bonus, but that can work as well.
Of course, now imagine swarms of German armor swarming across your land pillaging and attacking a half-dozen times, nabbing workers...it would be chaos.
6K Man
Bureaucrat
I think the Poles, French and Russians would agree that "chaos" perfectly describes the situation.
When I think of the WWII German armies, I think about "blitzkrieg", mobility, striking deep into enemy territory. Commando would simulate that fairly well. And it would certainly discourage building roads right up to German territory!
Resourcelessness for Camel Archers is nice... although in my opinion it would be more beneficial for a non-PRO leader who has an added incentive to solve resource problems by teching towards gunpowder.
Panzers with commando would be more flavourful but way too strong. Cheap industrialisation followed by access to extremely mobile tanks would be crushing.
Panzers with commando would be more flavourful but way too strong. Cheap industrialisation followed by access to extremely mobile tanks would be crushing.
I actually really like the Redcoat... awesome UUs to me are as follows: Navy SEAL, Keshik, Praetorians, Cossacks, Caracks... here are a lot whcih can change a game by being used properly. The 15% withdrawal rate is low, and so the redeeming factor is the lack of horses needed - although that is not always useful. They're not the worst, but down at the bottom somewhere
6K Man
Bureaucrat
I thought that too, but then asked myself if that was any worse than Praetorians on an earth/pangaea map? Yes, it would be a powerful UU, but without defensive bonuses and unable to bombard... and the fact that it comes so late is a mitigating factor, no?
blitzkrieg1980
Octobrist
I agree. The fact that it comes so close to the end of the tech tree mitigates its strength. I'm not sure how industrialization is cheap? Are we talking factories (b/c of Industrious trait)?
It is compensated for because i comes late in the game so cannot be used to rushh underdeveloped civs quickly, but can be used as a fast tank, which is its purpose
