Worst Unique Unit?

[Flying Pig]

The Keshik is, like most of them, great if used properly, but the Camel Archer is not worth much, except as a super-aggressive knight

 

[whitelaughter]

Personally, I always wished they had some sort of special missionary UU. I don't think, given the way the game goes, it would be good to have it limited to only interacting with Christianity though... While a German Taoist super-missionary doesn't make sense, neither does Germany building the Pyramids - yet, here we are!

Agreed, but an advantage of each nation getting a religion-specific UU is that it they can be impressive without requiring re-balancing the game.

I was figuring either the ability to "kill" other missionaries without a dow,

Theocracy. Real world, killing missionaries is counter productive; in game, why would you want to kill a missionary? Capture, yes!

the ability to scrub religions from your cities,

Have you played the Charlamgne mod? You might have fun with the Inquisitors.

the ability to spread religion twice, or the ability to spread more than one religion (if your civ has them).

something I've been toying with is a late unit, 'comparative theologian': can only be built in a city with 2+ religions, and spreads a random religion.

Though, and which way is, I'm one of those people who almost never mods after bad experiences with them. Of course, those were in the 90's, so maybe it's time to give them another try...

Have a look at the tutorials. I'm basically a luddite, but am being drawn in by the amount of really helpful stuff on these forums.

 

[Ramesses]

The Dog Soldier sucks pretty bad. He has a base strength of 4, one less than the unit he replaces (Axeman). Attack vs. Melee units may be increased from +50% to +100%, but that just gives the Dog Soldier 8 strength vs. an Axeman's 7.5 strength. 1 full point worse in most situations, half a point better some of the time. It's a total rip-off.

 

[PieceOfMind]

The Dog Soldier sucks pretty bad. He has a base strength of 4, one less than the unit he replaces (Axeman). Attack vs. Melee units may be increased from +50% to +100%, but that just gives the Dog Soldier 8 strength vs. an Axeman's 7.5 strength. 1 full point worse in most situations, half a point better some of the time. It's a total rip-off.

The Dog Soldier sucks pretty bad. He has a base strength of 4, one less than the unit he replaces (Axeman). Attack vs. Melee units may be increased from +50% to +100%, but that just gives the Dog Soldier 4 strength vs. an Axeman's 3.33 strength, which is a bit better than 4 vs. 4 for two axemen, and definitely better than 8 vs. 7.5.

The Dog Soldier will work out to be better vs. most melee units but its main problem is it's actually worse vs. everything else like archery units, siege units etc.

 

[Alrin Kharr]

The Dog Soldier isn't a top-tier UU by any stretch, but it certainly has its benefits. It's a strong defensive unit, and doesn't require Copper. Almost completely taking away your ability to axe rush does hurt, but Dogs combined with Bull's super Archers make it much easier to defend your empire if you go the peaceful expansion route in the early game. So no, it's not a top-10 unique, but it has its strengths, and I certainly wouldn't call it the worst, either.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Keshik
Numedian Cavalry - Horse back riding is a very Expensive early tech for a spearman type unit to rape you.
Camel Archer

Anyone voting Fast worker was smoking some good crack.

For anything below deity, I've found keshiks to easily resemble the dominance of prats. They aren't as gimped vs spears as you imply, and land gets taken very fast. Don't know as much about numidians but they're probably in a similar ball park.

 

[pi-r8]

The Dog Soldier isn't a top-tier UU by any stretch, but it certainly has its benefits. It's a strong defensive unit, and doesn't require Copper. Almost completely taking away your ability to axe rush does hurt, but Dogs combined with Bull's super Archers make it much easier to defend your empire if you go the peaceful expansion route in the early game. So no, it's not a top-10 unique, but it has its strengths, and I certainly wouldn't call it the worst, either.

The thing that bugs me about the dog soldier is the complete lack of synergy with the UB. Basically the totem, plus protective, gives you "super archers" which are resourceless and incredibly strong on defense. The dog soldier, also, is resourceless and incredibly strong on defense. I just don't see why you need both these things, at the same time.

 

[Crusher1]

You can gain land quicker by Axe and Chariot wars. Keshiks take much longer to get online because you need HBR and Archery which take quite a few turns to reach (equivalent to Monarchy or Alphabet - and that's a long time) and then once you get there you have then build the Ger and then, finally, you can begin making Keshiks, which are also more hammer draining and take yet longer again. There is no doubt that once you have them they are very powerful!! The only problem is you could have already taken over massive amounts of land with nothing more than Axes and chariots and already have sued for some damn good techs. By teching HBR and archery you effectively lose out on a tech you could have researched like COL or currency which gives your economy a much needed boost. By not teching HBR you will also tech to Liberalism much faster now.

I'm glad HA seem to work for you. Everyone has there units of choice. But for me, they always slow down the overall progression of my games.

EDIT:

BUT - if I am able to SUE HBR from my 1st or 2nd war, after I already have 9+ cities, then HELL YES, I will be a KESHIK or HA making fool.

 

[Tephros]

I'm starting to think Jaguars are the worst, actually. I had them ranked 3rd worst because I used them in an emperor game awhile back, but in retrospect I would rather have waited a few turns to hook up iron and chop swordsmen. They're only barely better than axemen for attacking cities if your opponent doesn't have metals. If your opponent doesn't have metals, swordsmen would have been better. If your opponent does, then axes are better. The medic/stack defense in forests were useful, but there's no reason you can't achieve what you need just as well without jags.

2-move warfare, with a stack of jaguars that all wasted a promo on a defensive promotion? That seriously makes no sense to me, but that could be because I play on the slower speeds. You're giving up a CR promo to get there faster (contingent upon forestation)? In order for that to work at all the must have no metals and a fully forested path to all cities you intend to take with the jag stack. But the Jaguar is unlikely enough to win as it is. Sure one should be willing to sacrifice as many units as it takes to take cities, but that strikes me as grossly inefficient. The idea must be to prevent the AI from pop rushing too many units before you can attack.

 

[champ82]

Prat
Samuri
Oromo Warrior
Kidding

 

[JonathanStrange]

The Dog Soldier isn't a top-tier UU by any stretch, but it certainly has its benefits. It's a strong defensive unit, and doesn't require Copper. Almost completely taking away your ability to axe rush does hurt, but Dogs combined with Bull's super Archers make it much easier to defend your empire if you go the peaceful expansion route in the early game. So no, it's not a top-10 unique, but it has its strengths, and I certainly wouldn't call it the worst, either.

I agree, it's certainly mediocre as UUs go, but early on the ease of acquiring Dog Soldiers add value too. There are some bad-a$$ UU out there but their price or availabilty often reduces their attractiveness; this is sort of the opposite case...

 

[Turquoiside]

The worst for me is Camel Archer, though I haven't checked out the Panzer which is supposedly pretty bad. Camel Archer is like a nerfing of a Knight. The extra withdraw points themseles don't make a complete UU and when you use it you feel like its
just another knight. In fact, the Byzantines are pretty much agood Arabia with all the similarites between them.

 

[Phoenician]

Dog Soldiers might be fun to play with if your playing with raging barbs on a prince/monarch+ difficulty level. There good against barbs, that's pretty much it. The Babylonian bowman is a better choice because it does what the dog soldier does but it is much cheaper and has a significant defensive bonus--also very good against barbs.

Musketeer might be useful with spies. Haven't tried that out yet but I hear it is good.
IMO, if the musketeer could keep its movement bonus after it was upgraded it would be such an awesome unit. 2 move infantry would be so much fun.

I've never tried the phalanx but it seems boring to me. If it was good against all mounted units I might consider it not useless.

Ballista elephant is stupid. Very situational and 95% of my games I don't have ivory nearby.

Holkan sucks. Period. Impi is a far better choice-fast unit-fast expansion + awesome UB.

 

[Notadolfhitler]

The phalanx is pretty awesome. Out of personal experience with pericles the phalanx can defend against anything it has a defense against chariots and melee units. The only bad part of the phalanx is you can attack a city with it but a swordsmen would be alot better.

 

[The_Big_Con]

Could I get a more detailed discussion of why camel archers are poor UUs?

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Could I get a more detailed discussion of why camel archers are poor UUs?

It's a knight. 15% withdraw chance? What is that? Nothing. That's what it is. A waste of a UU. It's a knight with a 15% chance of withdrawing whoopi.

 

[The_Big_Con]

Sorry to quarrel, but that seems like a decent, not fantastic, unique unit. I mean, it performs all of a Knight's functions, just a tiny bit better than the knight (ie, it dies 15% less frequently on attacks). When you compare it to units like the Dog Soldier that is in some ways better than the unit it replaces, and in some ways (a fight vs archers) worse, Camel Archer seems ... well, it certainly doesn't seem to be the bottom of the abrrel.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

15% withdrawal is nothing. If it was 25% or 30%, I'd probably rank them a lot higher. Dog soldiers are meant for defensive purposes. The 100% vs. melee units is great IMO. Very useful for defensive wars and barb protection. Combined with Native America's totem poles and Protective traits, no one should be taking any of your cities or destroying any critical improvements.

A knight with 15% extra withdrawal is a waste of a UU. Might as well have knights.

 

[Antilogic]

Sorry to quarrel, but that seems like a decent, not fantastic, unique unit. I mean, it performs all of a Knight's functions, just a tiny bit better than the knight (ie, it dies 15% less frequently on attacks). When you compare it to units like the Dog Soldier that is in some ways better than the unit it replaces, and in some ways (a fight vs archers) worse, Camel Archer seems ... well, it certainly doesn't seem to be the bottom of the abrrel.

Frankly, I think the UUs like the Numidian and Dog Soldier are among the best because they aren't just stronger, but they have a different role to play (and thus are more unique). The Numidian Cavalry aren't as strong attacking cities, but will mop up the enemy in the fields (where they tend to have fewer archers and they don't get city defense bonuses). I'd go as far as to say the Numidian Cavalry is one of the best-designed UUs in the game, in terms of flavor and balance.

The 15% is barely noticeable unless you tack additional Flanking promotions on the unit. However, then you aren't getting the benefit of the Combat promotion tree on the highest base-strength unit of the Medieval age (okay, besides the Byzantine UU).

I'm not a fan of Jaguars myself, probably because I've never pulled off a proper Jag rush. The neighboring AIs just had to be Gilgamesh and Sitting Bull...

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

I'm not a fan of Jaguars myself, probably because I've never pulled off a proper Jag rush. The neighboring AIs just had to be Gilgamesh and Sitting Bull...

I used to dis on them until I played a Monty game and didn't have Iron `