Worst UU

[gunkulator]

Just finished a game as HRE and I have to say that Landsknecht are pretty awesome especially as a defensive unit and you shouldn't underestimate defense especially when you take into account Siege Weapons. Most battles feature cities being attacked and attack strength is not very important since catapults/trebuchets reduce opposing strength to the point that the attacking unit's strength is not very relevant. What is relevant is the the unit's defensive ability during counterattacks and this is where the HRE UU shines.

How many defensive units do you really need? A single Landsknecht may do the job of a pikeman and a crossbow but you'll probably never need to build more than a few. In the end they don't save that many hammers.

 

[Farm Boy]

Well, I guess on the cheater speeds conquistadors might be ok, but meh...

 

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

Actually, I'd say Musketeer is the worst. On Fast, it can get to the front lines fast enough to not be obsolete. On Marathon, the musketman has more than enough time to reach the front lines.

 

[Farm Boy]

Yes, because chating is possible in a game you play against yourself.

I talk to myself all the time!

Seriously though, the comment was intended good-naturedly. From my observations you are far better than I am anyhow.

However, I still have to go with Obsolete's opinions of game speeds. Being able to leverage an ephemeral advantage to win the game just seems sketchy. Half-price chariots that move 6 spaces do change the equation a bit(rough approximation of how they seem to perform to a "normal" speed player).

 

[Farm Boy]

Guh, 100 unit stacks? My computer can not handle that much anyhow. It is not like Blizzard programmed this. It does not run seamlessly.

 

[Yxklyx]

How many defensive units do you really need? A single Landsknecht may do the job of a pikeman and a crossbow but you'll probably never need to build more than a few. In the end they don't save that many hammers.

Let me put it this way - if your opponent has any number of mounted units you will need Pikemen - the special ability gives it some extra flexibility.

 

[Vonreuter]

Jaguars are not bad at all. I seem to settle away from copper or iron all the time, which is disastrous for an Aggressive civ or anybody wanting to rush their opponent.

Furthermore, you can quite easily make your Jags Woodsmen III, which can win wars, not just battles. A few Woodsmen IIIs created in the stone age will help your war effort immensely even in the modern times. This makes Jaguars one of the best units in the game, IMO.

My vote? Well, I'd have to pick one of the end-game UUs for not being in the game long enough to matter, but then I play on Normal.

Dog Soldiers are also in the top three, but they do look good and just their looks makes you want to build more and more and more, until you have rushed your enemies, seen them driven before you and heard the lamentations of their women!

However, considering things from a wider perspective, I choose you, Ballista Elephant! Their bonus is so situational and they need Ivory, as somebody stated above.

I have to say I replaced Conquistador with Ballista Elephant when editing this post, so the Spanish UU is pretty close to the top too.

 

[theskibum]

However, considering things from a wider perspective, I choose you, Ballista Elephant! Their bonus is so situational and they need Ivory, as somebody stated above.

That was me!

/end shameless plug

 

[Fluroscent]

Come on. Dog soldiers are not even close to a worst UU.
Sitting Bull is one of the few leaders that has no trouble with barbarians on high levels thanks to them.
And how often do you get DOW'ed by some psycho like Shaka with a stack of axes/spears? Quite often. The dog soldier is the perfect unit to have in that case.
They are also great chokers. Better than most units available then.

So they are bad city attackers, big deal. Horse Archers are usually the best solution to early offensive warfare anyway.

Panzers have to be my vote, their benefit is ridiculously marginal.

 

[jwez11007]

I'ld have to say the worst UU is definitely the Ballista elephant only because it provides no significant advantage over it's base unit. Enemy mounted units are at their most dangerous on the attack and regular eles already provide the best classic protection against them. Not to mention their bonus doesn't even work against cities. In almost all practical scenarios the ballista ele has no bonuses.

Counter arguments to other contenders in no particular order:

Spoiler :

Of the other contenders, only the panzer compares in not finding an extra bonus in most practical scenarios. I've found the biggest danger to tank based attacks are mech infantry although I suppose if panzers maintain their advantage against modern armor they still beat out ballista eles b/c they become an early end game unit simply through the merit of having favorable odds against the strongest base land unit in the game.

Gallic warriors are essentially swords unlocked with copper rather than iron, unlocking all classic attacking units with only copper, combined with a strong hill defender and possibly unlocking G3 attackers. Definitely more than an uncommon situational advantage.

I'm surprised how many people disregard the landsckneckt. The most common objection being that civil service is an important economic tech to boot and unlocks the equally powerful macemen. However an early engineering beeline while defering civil service can be effective especially when combined with the whip and the large number of early cities HRE can effectively REX. As long as you have the room to expand to 8-10 cities (or even 5-6) as HRE, oracle->CoL+engineering beeline+whip=8 trebs+6 Landsckneckts+2 xbows=unstoppable early attack force (up to emperor and sometimes on immortal).

Seals have a definite advantage over marines, especially when utilizing late naval warfare. Their lateness definitely diminishes their use, but with extra first strikes and march they actually have a practical advantage that is more than situationally beneficial.

Dog soldiers only cost SB the ability to ax rush, while providing the advantage of a resourceless counter to praets and all other melee units. Not an unfair trade off.

Jags have a number of advantages that can be exploited in common scenarios besides their potential to become double movers when enemy forests are plentiful. Frankly the only time I've had WIII/M3 medics is with Monty. That alone can be a huge advantage long past the classic era.

As 2 movers musketeers have multiple common advantages over their counterparts including but not limited to a spy supported renaissance attack with effective attackers/defenders. They also have the capability to keep up with curs to garrison captured cities. They are also capable of fast reinforcement to surprise DoWs.

Conquistadors, while not necessarily strong on normal and fast, have plenty of advantages on epic and marathon. That aside early conquistadors have plenty of an advantage against all of their same era counters to be disqualified as a worse UU.

 

[gunkulator]

Let me put it this way - if your opponent has any number of mounted units you will need Pikemen - the special ability gives it some extra flexibility.

Sure, you'll need some but not that many. I never end up building all that many pikemen anyway - none at all if I can build war elephants. Landsknecht is no better than stock pikes against mounted. Both fare poorly against knights since knights have easy access to combat I + shock while you need to run vassalage or organized religion to get a level 3 pike, and even then you can't get formation.

The 100% bonus against melee really equates to just 50% vs. the melee unit of the era, macemen. I can get 50% against macemen with a crossbow, which has the added advantage of a first strike plus it has access to shock, drill and city garrison promotions. Landsknecht have all the wrong promotions for defense. Usually I just make due with a shock promoted mace or knight.

 

[ColossusXXIII]

Hard to distinguish between so many good candidates.
Navy SEAL, Panzer. Very late. By the time you can build SEALs you can build tanks for, what, 10 hammers more. I'll take tanks. Maybe on Deity Panzer gives you an edge, I don't know.

exactly, with regards to the panzer. On deity (i always play dom/conquest) you never, ever, ever and i mean never have a tech lead in the late stage. So having panzers lets you stand up to the Ai's inevitably getting modern armor long before you. I have only two diety wins but both came around the late 1800's and were won on the back of nukes and obsolete units. Each time i really, really wished I had panzers to counter their modern armor. So maybe the panzer is that late game equalizer which can give you that last push to victory.

People think Elizabeth is an amazing leader because of fin/philo, on deity Fredrick is beast with Org/Philo (Org shines in the late game as maintenance sky rockets on deity), plus panzers and assembly plants which have amazing synergy with his Org trait. people say that they suck too, but the timing is perfect. with coal you can put them and a power plant in even your worst production cities and make them at least decent. and super quickly. The late game is all about production and military infrastructure and having ultra cheap factories and super tanks (best offensive weapon except nukes) is that extra something that makes germany much more formidable than people think.

 

[Skwink]

The Fast Worker. Sure, they are fast, but I find them useless against My Praetorian SOD's.

 

[Ataxerxes]

The Fast Worker. Sure, they are fast, but I find them useless against My Praetorian SOD's.

You've got to be kidding. Even on Marathon they give a tangible bonus, which is more than you can say for some of the weaker UU's. On Normal, they're top 5 and probably the top UU on Quick (not that many people play quick). And their usefulness is regardless of difficulty.

 

[nfw]

I'd give the panzer another movement point (in fact probably all vehicles should get another movement point)

 

[vicawoo]

Nobody sees that Ballista elephants can potentially protect your catapults from flanking damage?

It's like saying vultures and wraiths in starcraft stink because people look at their damage in common situations, but completely ignored their strategic use. Or when gamespot called the quechua the worst unique unit.

Ballista elephants' unique abilities give them the potential to be part of a strategic revolution.

 

[6K Man]

Probably Bowmen.

 

[ColossusXXIII]

Numidian cavalry nuff said....

 

[Vonreuter]

Vicawoo, you are correct. Good thinking!

Numidian Cavalry isn't poor at all. You just have to give them Flanking I and II, use them in large numbers and let the odds prove their worth to you. You will lose quite a few of them, but the retreat bonus makes them survive much longer than other troops.

Most people ignore Flanking and retreat bonuses and focus on strength. That's the problem with Numidian Cavalry.

This topic calls for a poll though. Gentlemen and gentle women?

 

[enKage]

I say Jaguar. It's only good when no one near you has copper/iron, which is rare unless you're playing an Earth map.

It can't beat the unit it's based off of and it's weaker doing the very task the unit it's based off of is supposed to do.

You're joking ? Very cheap, built with no resources, ony slightly weaker than swords, but doublemoved (after one promotion) in jungle can very quickly destroy nearly every civ (ok, except Native Americans and Sumerian). From Monty's traits +10% strenght and from unit type +10% city attack, easy acces to healing promotions (woodmans + healing)....

And more important - great outfit and i like dancing style of them fighting

A bit later you should have catapults, so jags strenght - is it 5 or 6 - doesnn't matter at all

Also
I dont know why most of u dislike Balista Elephant - at least it is not worse than common unit, and can be really helpful - f.e. defending cities against huge stack of cataphracts - god bless ballista elephants!

My "number one" is Numidian Cavalry. I usually delay discovering horseback riding as long as possible (the only exception are mongolian keshiks), and i think most players do the same. OK numidian cavalry is better in retreating BUT it is not an additional ability, but just one free promotion ;/ too poor for me
And in fact it is probably the only one UU worse than typical unit


I still wonder, how people were able to play Carthage on Vanilla, where there was no unique building? And -10% attacking cities?